It was a good run...last F-22 built

[Gargamel]

Agreed. From what I have heard in the aviation world, UAV's are the next biggest and cheapest thing for our front line fighters.
Right now the stumbling block is the ethics of an unmanned aircraft fighting vs manned.
I say get over it and let the UAV's have at it! Some of the things I have heard they can do is amazing!

Packs of UAV's capable of Mach 2+ pulling 50+g's in turns and hunting in clusters talking to each other with air to air/air to ground capabilities! A "cluster" would have the ability to fight air and ground multiple (50+ targets) at a time! Now that is a scary thought.

Way cheaper than a F-22 and much more all weather,shoot down ability.

It's all good until someone hacks the code, takes over control, or both....

The F-22 was a production aircraft that currently owns anything in the sky today and in the projected near future.

Exercises in Red Flag, Alaska, and international sites have proven a 30:1 kill ratio even over the latest airframes such as the Eurofighter and latest Migs.

Manufacturing costs were coming down per airframe and major allies wanted in on the action, as opposed to currently pulling out of the mess that is the F-35.

What a waste...

[Chas_svo]

It's all good until someone hacks the code, takes over control, or both....

The F-22 was a production aircraft that currently owns anything in the sky today and in the projected near future.

Exercises in Red Flag, Alaska, and international sites have proven a 30:1 kill ratio even over the latest airframes such as the Eurofighter and latest Migs.

Manufacturing costs were coming down per airframe and major allies wanted in on the action, as opposed to currently pulling out of the mess that is the F-35.

What a waste...

This is actually good info, unlike most of what you read in the news and from Washington. The actual impressive count was the 99-0 against 100 F16s, F15s, and F18s. 1 F15 had mechanical issues and had to withdraw. This is also when the F18 pilot pulled the "trick" on the F22 on the runway and starteded the trash talk that a superbug got a lock on an F22. Almost cost a pilot his wings. In 10-15 years, the cancellation of the F22 will be regarded as the most stupid move ever from DC.

[pHILSANITY07]

Save some money and bring back the F-14

[Chas_svo]

Actually the smart move is to dump the STOVL variant and move on.

And they built 195 F22s. 187 are prod models, some were SDDs, etc.

[CJ]

Actually the smart move is to dump the STOVL variant and move on.

I'm pretty sure that would cause the Marine's contract to cancel.

[Gargamel]

Actually the smart move is to dump the STOVL variant and move on.

Yep...

The jarheads would be better off getting fast-mover cover\CAS from F-18s on CVNs accompanied by some inexpensive but capable Super Tucanos from the amphibs...





It's no doubt that the harriers need replacement, but the F-35 STOVL variant needs to be put on hold until the money can be found to fund it adequately...

[Chas_svo]

I'm certain, but its the problem child. Look at how much they use a Harrier as designed.

[Chas_svo]

It's no doubt that the harriers need replacement, but the F-35 STOVL variant needs to be put on hold until the money can be found to fund it adequately...

Yep, but that time is "never".

[Gargamel]

Yep, but that time is "never".

true dat...

[CJ]

I'm certain, but its the problem child. Look at how much they use a Harrier as designed.

I've never really understood the VTOL/STOVL theory. It seems like a hell of alot of sacrifice for little gain. Seems like they are adapting the tool for the job instead of the job for the tool. Modern computer controls would very easily increase the reliability, and dependability of VTOL..but at what cost?

[Chas_svo]

It's only time and money. How much you got?

[CJ]

It's only time and money. How much we got?

fixed.

[Gargamel]

I've never really understood the VTOL/STOVL theory. It seems like a hell of alot of sacrifice for little gain. Seems like they are adapting the tool for the job instead of the job for the tool. Modern computer controls would very easily increase the reliability, and dependability of VTOL..but at what cost?

The marines wanted a CAP\CAS capability from a forward location near the fight, which usually necessitates an inherent VTOL/STOVL capability.

However, a weaponized Osprey or inexpensive Super Tucano could provide a very good first-day tactical CAS capability in most cases, and a CVN could provide top cover and additional assistance until the Air Force can come to play.

[likeitfast55]

It's all good until someone hacks the code, takes over control, or both....

The F-22 was a production aircraft that currently owns anything in the sky today and in the projected near future.

Exercises in Red Flag, Alaska, and international sites have proven a 30:1 kill ratio even over the latest airframes such as the Eurofighter and latest Migs.

Manufacturing costs were coming down per airframe and major allies wanted in on the action, as opposed to currently pulling out of the mess that is the F-35.

What a waste...

Agreed. Not saying it is a stand alone defense. Used right UAV's could be a devastating addition to our front line fighters like the F-22.

I never understood the VTOL/STOVL need in our fleet either. In euro ally nations that do not have the forward airbases or the carrier groups they NEED the short field capability. I believe that we give up a lot to get that ability that we do not need 99% of the time.

[CJ]

It's getting time to cut the foreplay and go to an entirely autonomous air force.