Suggestions for a .308 auto loader?

[slowyellow]

Most run of the mill M1A's are 1.50 MOA at best and thats not very impressive for 1200 I've seen several DPMS variant AR10 shoot wasy .75 MOA. M1A's are also a little more difficult to mount an optic on since sometimes recievers aren't as true as they could so the scope mounts don't sit very solid. Then if you buy a plain loaded one and it doesn't shoot great you better bring your wallet to get it fixed, new barrels have to be headspaced then the action has to be timed after that, there's also bedding but that's a 2 part process.

The Designated Marksman rifles are old match rifles that have had Mcmillan stocks put on them and have been built by 10th Special Forces armorers.

I have a buddy that is a "designated marksman" and he says that the M1A's that they shoot are 1.5 MOA rifles. Not saying that they aren't good guns, but I too like some of the others believe that for the money there is better accuracy out there.

Now after saying that... I'd love to have one just for the nostalgia of it. Someday I will have one, I just need to quit buying damn HK's. They tend to deplete the gun buying funds.

[dee]

I agree I love them and will eventually buy one , it'll more than likely me a National Match version or the Super Match version.

[Marss]

Don't recall this being mentioned but the FNAR is another option.

[Moose242]

Most run of the mill M1A's are 1.50 MOA at best and thats not very impressive for 1200 I've seen several DPMS variant AR10 shoot wasy .75 MOA. M1A's are also a little more difficult to mount an optic on since sometimes recievers aren't as true as they could so the scope mounts don't sit very solid. Then if you buy a plain loaded one and it doesn't shoot great you better bring your wallet to get it fixed, new barrels have to be headspaced then the action has to be timed after that, there's also bedding but that's a 2 part process.

The Designated Marksman rifles are old match rifles that have had Mcmillan stocks put on them and have been built by 10th Special Forces armorers.

I have repeatedly heard that standard M1As are 1 moa box stock guns, and that the super match/m21s can shoot sub moa groups. I am sure there are comparable ar10s out there that can do this, as one moa is a 1.04 inch group at 100 yards. Any Competent marksman should be able to do that.

Also, scope mounts are not hard to come by for the M1A. Lastly, the fact that I am arguing in favor of a springfield rifle over an almighty HK variant says something in it of itself.

[Bassics]

Whenever you guys throw around these supposed MOAs, what range are you talking about?

I can get 0 MOA from a raven 25 at the right range, so MOA alone isn't really meaningful.

[CJ]

Whenever you guys throw around these supposed MOAs, what range are you talking about?

I can get 0 MOA from a raven 25 at the right range, so MOA alone isn't really meaningful.

Assuming they are using MOA as it's intended, they mean 100 yards.

[Moose242]

Whenever you guys throw around these supposed MOAs, what range are you talking about?

I can get 0 MOA from a raven 25 at the right range, so MOA alone isn't really meaningful.

"A minute of arc, arcminute, or minute of angle (MOA), is a unit of angular measurement equal to one sixtieth (1⁄60) of one degree. In turn, a second of arc or arcsecond is one sixtieth (1⁄60) of one minute of arc. Since one degree is defined as one three hundred and sixtieth (1⁄360) of a rotation, 1 minute of arc is 1⁄21,600 of the same. It is used in those fields which require a unit for the expression of small angles, such as astronomy, navigation and marksmanship."

The exact measure of MOA is 1.0471996" at 100 yards of distance.

[dee]

Seen a pair of loaded M1A's at the local service rifle matches that were 1.5 MOA at best most times 2 MOA. Then looked into getting one to put an optic on and a very good M1A/Garand gunsmith said he's had several newer M1A's that the action was not true and canted the scope, the mounts were true just not the rifle. After seeing a fairly expensive rifle shoot that poor and talking to the gunsmith I'll pass on them unless it's a NM model at the minimum, especially when a LR308 can and will shoot MOA at relatively the same price. The only downfall to them has been that a lot of people aren't seeing velocity levels as high as they should be especially compared to the Armalite's.

[Bassics]

Right, i understand MOA, but my point was that without a reference distance it is meaningless.

So the next question; are these MOA numbers mechanical averages, ie: locked in a lead-sled, or are these subjective and meaningless averages with different shooters in different positions?

Because I would expect good ammo in a good rifle to shoot under 1 MOA @ 100yds, mechanically speaking. We're not talking about M1 carbine plinkers here.

[dee]

A good rest will be sufficient enough with a seasoned shooter. A leadslead will produce good group size but it will more than likely be in a different spot on the target than if a person shot the groups.

[CJ]

I think it's all peoples patience, not necessarily skill. I shoot a 1/8" MOA with my target gun with a modified factory GI trigger, stock grip, stock everything. My theory is people just dont want to try as hard as they have to in order to get tight groups. When it comes to tight groups it's all in the barrel, ammo, and shooter. Except for Keith, then it comes down the Bolt as well

[dee]

True when I said "seasoned" I meant someone with a good grasp on breathing and trigger control.

[CJ]

True when I said "seasoned" I meant someone with a good grasp on breathing and trigger control.

dee, I'm not after you

[dee]

It's cool I just read the way I worded it and thought after reading yours too explaining what I meant may help others understand where I was coming from.

[Bassics]

A leadslead will produce good group size but it will more than likely be in a different spot on the target than if a person shot the groups.

Haha, I got myself in trouble one time laughing at some BR work going on, not really thinking before mouthing off