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So why don't they put these "awesome" tunes on, from the factory?

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  • So why don't they put these "awesome" tunes on, from the factory?

    You know how you can take a stock F-150 and increase the power, and the gas mileage with a good tune? Which as it turns out, is just a timing increase. If its so great, how come the automakers don't just set the vehicle to that tune, from the factory? Does the tune somehow shorten the life of the engine? It seems odd that they wouldn't do something that would increase mileage and power. There must be some kind of drawback to doing this.

  • #2
    To support the aftermarket business??
    Doug

    90 LX Coupe 5.0
    90 7up Vert. 5.0

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    • #3
      emissions

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      • #4
        Mpg and power doesn't happen at the same time. You can get better gas mileage ad you can get better power out of a tune but they are inversly proportional. Its also more than just timing it can range from a wide list of things all the way down to shift points to get more out of a gear. All that a side it comes down to one thing EMISSIONS. They spend millions righting the strategies in the veh to get the best gas mileage with good power and stay with in the federal emisions standards. Ever sen a diesel with a chip they get more power and they dump larg doses of heay particulate matter out of the tail pipe every time you hit the accelerator.
        89 dove grey lx, turbo blowthrough

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        • #5
          Originally posted by StanleyTweedle View Post
          You know how you can take a stock F-150 and increase the power, and the gas mileage with a good tune? Which as it turns out, is just a timing increase. If its so great, how come the automakers don't just set the vehicle to that tune, from the factory? Does the tune somehow shorten the life of the engine? It seems odd that they wouldn't do something that would increase mileage and power. There must be some kind of drawback to doing this.
          To compensate for varying qualities of fuel as well as long term condition of sensors and actuators.

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          • #6
            several reasons. warranty being one of the main.
            Ring and pinion specialist

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            • #7
              Originally posted by greenbullitt View Post
              several reasons. warranty being one of the main.
              This is a big player.


              Example:
              We make a 9 liter engine that is used in automotive, industrial, powergen, and marine applicaitons.

              For off-highway apps where people do some weird stuff we limit it to 365hp @ 2100 rpm (and that's a restricted rating that takes engineering approval to release)
              For on-highway apps where there is a known "standard" duty cycle it's there are ratings up to 450hp @ 2100 rpm.
              For marine apps where there's a lot of steady state work with short bouts of high output... 650 hp @ 3000 rpm.

              Just a calibration change on all of those. Same base parts.

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              • #8
                The whole timing thing comes down to NOx emissions (not NOs) oxides of nitrogen form when the combustion chamber hits 2500 degrees and by adding timing you increase cylinder pressure, you increase cyl pressure you increase heat which = NOx gasses being formed, Tier II and epa regulate the allowed limit auto manufactures can allow in their cars based on the cars BIN catagory. Hc, Co, and even CO2 are all watched for and regulated, aftermarket tuners usually say "For off road use only" to cover their ass's from the epa, they dont care bout the emissions so they bump timing, inj pulse width and other variables to get the better bang for your buck. Sorry bout the physics speech

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                • #9
                  [QUOTE=turbos66coupe;199320]Mpg and power doesn't happen at the same time. You can get better gas mileage ad you can get better power out of a tune but they are inversly proportional. QUOTE]

                  That is not always true. You can optimize an engines BSFC to obtain more efficeincy (I.E. more power with less/same fuel.)
                  www.dfwdirtriders.com

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                  • #10
                    a couple degrees of timing isn't going to kill an NA gasser...

                    but it WILL kill emisssions levels

                    blame the EPA
                    http://www.truthcontest.com/entries/...iversal-truth/

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                    • #11
                      Its mainly the Emissions Standards that have been set that limit the performance from the factory.

                      Just like anything out there, the motor may handle more power but how much fuel do you have to add to the fire to obtain it?

                      EPA is teh suck.

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                      • #12
                        as mentioned, it also allows a larger safety margin if someone gets shitty or low quality gas.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by 32vfromhell View Post
                          as mentioned, it also allows a larger safety margin if someone gets shitty or low quality gas.
                          so do knock sensors...

                          it's an emissions thing
                          http://www.truthcontest.com/entries/...iversal-truth/

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                          • #14
                            Thanks guys, very interesting info here. At least to a nuub like me. So basically, if you have a tune, when you go to get your inspection you're going to fail if they do a sniffer test. Which I don't think they do, as long as the check engine light is not on. Least I don't think they do, I can't remember.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by StanleyTweedle View Post
                              Thanks guys, very interesting info here. At least to a nuub like me. So basically, if you have a tune, when you go to get your inspection you're going to fail if they do a sniffer test. Which I don't think they do, as long as the check engine light is not on. Least I don't think they do, I can't remember.
                              Not necessarily. If you are running some good cats they will clean up a lot of issues. Some heet in the gas will take care of NOX problems. Some people pass emissions with no cats whatsoever. It's a big crapshoot. I passed emissions with the engine camming nicely with an E303 cam and advanced timing (that was a really interesting experience) - but i had working cats too.

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