Upgrading brakes, what am I missing?

[KBScobravert]

So I have an offer in to buy a pair of Brembo 4piston front calipers.....they need pads and need to be stripped (silver painted) and painted (red). They will be replacing a set of the 2piston PBR '95 Cobra calipers (FRPP ones that came red coated).

Rotors are 2piece Baer Eradi-speed 13" cross drilled and slotted in the front and rear.


Rear calipers are the factory Cobra (FRPP red ones) again on the 11.5" same rotors.


Factory ABS system removed. I had to install a junction block where the old ABS module pump was. Just a mess of lines going all over the place. So now I want to re-plumb the brakes from the master cylinder to the wheels.

Going with the larger bore capacity fronts makes me think an adjustable proportioning valve is needed. Wilwood makes a great one that will also aid in re-plumbing the new lines.



That makes me think that I may want to replace the master cylinder. Wilwood makes an 7/8" bore aluminum tandem master cylinder with an adjustable prop valve and bracket kit to bolt right up.

http://www.wilwood.com/MasterCylinders/MasterCylinderList.aspx?group=Aluminum%20Tandem%20M/C%20Kit%20with%20Bracket%20and%20Valve

The new Brembos bolt up to the 94/95 spindles and don't require the adapter brackets. But will require new braided lines.

Do I want to keep the power brakes at this point? What bout just going manual adapter? What am I not factoring in?

Wonder if anyone has ever taken the 2 piston PBR calipers from the front and put them on the rear axles keeping the factory rear to use as the parking brake?

[racrguy]

If it's a street car, power brakes all the way.

Edit: you can go with manual brakes, but I would get a smaller bore master cylinder to increase the pressure to the calipers for the same amount of brake pedal pressure. Personally, I'd stick with power brakes.

[jw33]

I would keep the power brakes and yes to a manual prop valve. You might even consider putting ABS back on the car if you are really looking to go nuts. How much for the old front setup? I'm looking for a set of spare cobra calipers and rotors if they are not drilled or slotted.

[KBScobravert]

If it's a street car, power brakes all the way.

Edit: you can go with manual brakes, but I would get a smaller bore master cylinder to increase the pressure to the calipers for the same amount of brake pedal pressure. Personally, I'd stick with power brakes.

I have never driven a manual brake car. So any input is greatly appreciated.

Found a conversion for the rear. Seems awfully expensive for what you get though.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/79-04-FORD-MUSTANG-BREMBO-GRAN-TURISMO-GT-345mm-2-PIECE-REAR-BRAKE-KIT-/301175324176?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item461f72be10&vxp=mtr

In the kit


so you can do this

[Baron Von Crowder]

I have manual brakes on my 69 and the fairmont race car. The key to it all is the pedal throw, and the mounting of the master itself.

Call maximum Motorsports and tell them your combo. They gave me recommendations that were spot on for our setup.

[KBScobravert]

I would keep the power brakes and yes to a manual prop valve. You might even consider putting ABS back on the car if you are really looking to go nuts. How much for the old front setup? I'm looking for a set of spare cobra calipers and rotors if they are not drilled or slotted.

ABS is probably too far gone now. I still have the pump and sensors, just that the harnesses have been cleaned out of the car. The ABS pump was right in the way of the turbo exhaust.

I ended up giving Brooks a complete front set up (Cobra calipers, rotors, spindles) and rear calipers and rotors.

I plan on keeping these rotors but the calipers will HAVE to go up for sale to help recover some of this cost.

[garycrist]

Like this?

http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-to/engine/mump-0905-electric-high-power-master-cylinder/

[KBScobravert]

^^^^just what I need, more electronics in this car. lol

[mk5.0]

Why not remake the brake lines and move the abs pump to a different spot ?

[mk5.0]

Also have you seen the thread on the corral for the adapters to put 14" rotors on the front ?

[KBScobravert]

Why not remake the brake lines and move the abs pump to a different spot ?

I could. It would take me redoing a ton of wiring or just buying a whole new (used of course) fuse box and front end harness.

Also have you seen the thread on the corral for the adapters to put 14" rotors on the front ?

I have but I want to stay with my 17's and the practically brand new rotors I already have.

[KBScobravert]

Crap. Now I am pricing out the Baer 13" Front Pro+ (minus rotors) and the Baer 12" Rear SS4 (minus rotors). The fronts use their 6 piston calipers and the rears use their 4 piston with a inner rotor parking brake system.

Then use my power booster and master cylinder and the Wilwood proportioning valve to start. If I need a change the MC I will after I drive it. I can always go manual later to try it out too. Worst case, I don't like those brakes with manual and I put the booster right back on.

[Sleeper]

Shit gets expensive quick doesnt it. Even poor boy setups if buying all new stuff.

[aggie97]

If you are talking about the 2000R brembos, those eradispeed rotors will not work with them. The swept area is MUCH larger and the brake pad will hit the "hat" on those. Also, if the Brembos have aged enough to need repainting, you need to rebuild them. Those parts are going to cost you over $400.

My advice, and trust me, I have plenty of experience here....leave the MC alone and buy a 13" stoptech kit for the front and keep the cobra rears. Reasons why:

1. Stoptech "street" pads are cheap at $100 or so. Most of the brembo setups are far more expensive and difficult to find. For stoptech, go to Zeckhausen and get the part number, then key into google and buy from internet idiot making $10 on a sale.

2. Stoptech kits are AMAZING and modulate Very well with the factory MC.
3. Install the prop valve as mentioned.
4. ABS unit can be replumbed anywhere in the car and run with simple power connections. AI racers have done this for years and there are schematics of how to do it. CHEAP insurance on the street or whatever you want it for. My unit sits in my back seat.
5. Brembos suck. They are either on or off and difficult to modulate. Parts are a bitch to get. I can call Zeckhausen, tell them my stop tech application and I have parts 3 days later. Granted they are not fox body cheap, but they are reasonable and available. Brembo likes to sell new calipers.
6. replacement rings for stoptechs are $200-250 each. All other brands are in the same range OR MORE. Again, call Zeckhausen, parts in 3 days.
7. Keep the power brakes otherwise you are going to have calves like Arnold.
8. Use the factory cobra rears. Plenty of power, easy to find parts and cheap. We use them on our race cars. Any more brake is a bitch to get balanced and is usually WAY too much braking effort. Say hello to wheel hop and rear tires locking up.

Not sure what wheels you run but stoptech has templates you can print and cut out to check wheel clearance.....however, you CAN run certain 14" brake kits under CERTAIN 17" wheels. 95R's will clear some saleen and Roush front kits. I now have the Roush/Alcon 14" fronts under 17" wheels...however, mine is very "one off".

Now, the question no one has asked, what is your need to upgrade? What do you plan on doing with the car to need all this brake. Standard PBR cobra's front and rear are more than enough for even some extreme street cars...you just need to keep the system fresh and new.

BTW, baer is junk, is heavy as hell and VERY hard to buy parts for. Pads are not common and that 4 piston rear setup is WAY too much brake....especially if you have to do burn outs.

[KBScobravert]

I figured it would be easier to reply this way. Thanks for the response, you being up very valid points. Let me see if I can answer them all honestly.

If you are talking about the 2000R brembos, those eradispeed rotors will not work with them. The swept area is MUCH larger and the brake pad will hit the "hat" on those. Also, if the Brembos have aged enough to need repainting, you need to rebuild them. Those parts are going to cost you over $400.

I was thinking the same thing and in the end PM'd him to back out of the deal. First time I have EVER done that and I felt like shit, until he said he already sold them. My offer to purchase was pending me getting home in July anyways. Felt better then.

My advice, and trust me, I have plenty of experience here....leave the MC alone and buy a 13" stoptech kit for the front and keep the cobra rears.

Those stoptechs are up there in price but not doing the rears would come out to less than I was already planning on spending for both F&R for Baer's wares.

Reasons why:

1. Stoptech "street" pads are cheap at $100 or so. Most of the brembo setups are far more expensive and difficult to find. For stoptech, go to Zeckhausen and get the part number, then key into google and buy from internet idiot making $10 on a sale.

2. Stoptech kits are AMAZING and modulate Very well with the factory MC.
3. Install the prop valve as mentioned.
4. ABS unit can be replumbed anywhere in the car and run with simple power connections. AI racers have done this for years and there are schematics of how to do it. CHEAP insurance on the street or whatever you want it for. My unit sits in my back seat.

I know I have seen write ups on doing this, do you have any favorites that you might have bookmarked?

5. Brembos suck. They are either on or off and difficult to modulate. Parts are a bitch to get. I can call Zeckhausen, tell them my stop tech application and I have parts 3 days later. Granted they are not fox body cheap, but they are reasonable and available. Brembo likes to sell new calipers.

Moot now, since all those that I found for sale did was send me digging into my wallet for bigger brakes all around.

6. replacement rings for stoptechs are $200-250 each. All other brands are in the same range OR MORE. Again, call Zeckhausen, parts in 3 days.

I will be happy to wear out a set of rotors in this car. Right now, she is just wearing out jackstands and my wife's patience.

7. Keep the power brakes otherwise you are going to have calves like Arnold.

Talisman? Sorry couldn't resist. Valid point but wouldn't the larger brakes minimize the force needed to draw to a stop?


8. Use the factory cobra rears. Plenty of power, easy to find parts and cheap. We use them on our race cars. Any more brake is a bitch to get balanced and is usually WAY too much braking effort. Say hello to wheel hop and rear tires locking up.

Not sure what wheels you run but stoptech has templates you can print and cut out to check wheel clearance.....however, you CAN run certain 14" brake kits under CERTAIN 17" wheels. 95R's will clear some saleen and Roush front kits. I now have the Roush/Alcon 14" fronts under 17" wheels...however, mine is very "one off".


I have and want to stick with my set of M-1007-R58 Cobra Rs. I would love to stuff a 14" in there.

Now, the question no one has asked, what is your need to upgrade? What do you plan on doing with the car to need all this brake. Standard PBR cobra's front and rear are more than enough for even some extreme street cars...you just need to keep the system fresh and new.

Aha, the million dollar question. Or roughly $3,000 question. Right now the car is a jackstand queen. When she runs, I enjoy spirited street cruising. I have to be honest and admit, I am for shock value of a car that is overbuilt by even crazy imagination. Will it autocross, I would like to dabble in it eventually but I feel it will be a poor fit and overpower (if such a thing). I hazard to say, I built this car in a Pro Touring mindset (on a modest budget from what I have seen having just found Pro-Touring.com) just more of a stock exaggeration on the wheels.

BTW, baer is junk, is heavy as hell and VERY hard to buy parts for. Pads are not common and that 4 piston rear setup is WAY too much brake....especially if you have to do burn outs.

I thought the calipers I was seeing were all C5/C6 vette parts. But good point on the weight and rear braking powa.

So with most of that in mind. How do you feel about about Wilwood's offerings if I was set on making a change from current setup?