Extreme engine building

[jyro]

look at page 6 on this url

http://www.aera.org/ep/downloads/ep11/ep07-2010_42-48.pdf

"Not only are there
thermal dimensional changes, but these
changes are far from uniform throughout
the bore. The major effect is the gross
dimensional change in bore diameter,
which can change .0005 - .001” of
an inch, per inch of bore diameter, at
temperatures between 65°F and 210°F.
For a common 4” bore, this equals .002
– .004” of growth."

According to research done by KW, in
addition to the amount of average bore
size increase, the average difference from
cylindrical in the heated and pressurized
bore seems to be around .0015”. This
change can be several times the change
seen with torque plates.

[jayjohnson600]

Yes, heating the block to running temps for the machine work makes a difference.

I've been to several machine shops in DFW and Arkansas, and have not seen any provision for this, except from setting them in the sun if they even do that.

Jay Johnson

[asphaltjunkie]

Back in the 50s-70s when my stepdad was racing boats up north, he was doing all sorts of odd shit to go faster. He would take a set of pistons, put them in a 500° oven for a few hours till they had expanded, mic'd them all, and had the machine shop bore out the cylinders to those measurements...ran ever so slightly oval cylinders. Didn't care how bad it ran cold, just that it ran like a scalded ape when at op temps.
He would also file back the ground electrode on the spark plugs in a "V" until it made a point right over the center electrode.
And the craziest thing he ever did (on purpose, that worked) was he would increase the stroke to where top dead center was higher than the deck height, throw a few extra head gasket(s) on there, and use the gaskets to raise the deck height to accomodate the longer stroke.

But, we're also talking about the guy who, while drunk, accidentally assembled a motor after accidentally dropping half a piece of pizza in the damn thing, then wondering why it wouldn't crank....and who wanted his '69 GTO 'vert to go faster, so he thought taking the air cleaner lid off his 3 deuce
setup would help.....but he wound up sucking the fiberglass hood mat down through the carbs and into the motor....


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[asphaltjunkie]

Back in the 50s-70s when my stepdad was racing boats up north, he was doing all sorts of odd shit to go faster. He would take a set of pistons, put them in a 500° oven for a few hours till they had expanded, mic'd them all, and had the machine shop bore out the cylinders to those measurements...ran ever so slightly oval cylinders. Didn't care how bad it ran cold, just that it ran like a scalded ape when at op temps.
He would also file back the ground electrode on the spark plugs in a "V" until it made a point right over the center electrode.
And the craziest thing he ever did (on purpose, that worked) was he would increase the stroke to where top dead center was higher than the deck height, throw a few extra head gasket(s) on there, and use the gaskets to raise the deck height to accomodate the longer stroke.

But, we're also talking about the guy who, while drunk, accidentally assembled a motor after accidentally dropping half a piece of pizza in the damn thing, then wondering why it wouldn't crank....and who wanted his '69 GTO 'vert to go faster, so he thought taking the air cleaner lid off his 3 deuce
setup would help.....but he wound up sucking the fiberglass hood mat down through the carbs and into the motor....


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And as proof that this crazy shit worked, he has a photo of him and his dad standing by a table with around 40 or so 1st place trophies...

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[jyro]

I'm not calling bs but

Back in the 50s-70s when my stepdad was racing boats up north, he was doing all sorts of odd shit to go faster. He would take a set of pistons, put them in a 500° oven for a few hours till they had expanded, mic'd them all, and had the machine shop bore out the cylinders to those measurements...ran ever so slightly oval cylinders.

I have no idea how you would bore a oval cylinder.

[asphaltjunkie]

I have no idea how you would bore a oval cylinder.

Sorry...had that backwards. He'd have the pistons cut down where they expanded so they'd be perfectly round when at operating temps.

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[Grape]

High strung N/A deals dont have iron bores anymore...

[jyro]

nikasil or what

High strung N/A deals dont have iron bores anymore...

what do they have?

[SC457A]

Race engines are strange. Its all about temps. I never rev my race junk until i know its warmed up and had a good heat soak ( trannys soak a lot of heat up). Learned the hard/expensive lesson on warm ups. Still Hate Reher Morrison for that $ lesson.

[jyro]

I use a lot of methanol

Race engines are strange. Its all about temps. I never rev my race junk until i know its warmed up and had a good heat soak ( trannys soak a lot of heat up). Learned the hard/expensive lesson on warm ups. Still Hate Reher Morrison for that $ lesson.

even with a idle leanout for warmup, I use a gallon or two of alky to get it to 180 before a run. It keeps the oil clear too.

[SC457A]

I have tried alky.... key trick is to warm it up to enough to get rid of the "water".

Jyro, I know you and your car. Try EFI on alky.... runs lean till at proper temps, if it gets hot, run it a bit richer to cool it down. All it takes is a few keystrokes.

[jyro]

I've thought about EFI

I'm not going to make my car 9 second legal, I can't really justify the investment into the setup. I could drill my vic jr intake for injectors or rig a toiletbowl setup for the blower complete with the pump drive but the car was purpose built for bracket racing in no electronics. Just going in the 10's, it does ok plenty rich. I think I've got 43's in it and a intake vac/boost ported bypass regulator go change the BG400 pressure at the log. 6-7.5 at idle and 12+ under boost. just having one .150 needle and seat in each bowl is a lot of headache to feed those 143 jets. No room for dual needle c&s at the rear. Im running a hp950 alky carb, at (830 cfm it's too small), it works ok.

[silverhatch]

Is there a question in there?

[jyro]

nope

Is there a question in there?

I suppose it was a thread hi-jack

[Lason]

I could drill my vic jr intake for injectors

If you do go that route don't take your intake to your buddy Dennis. Took him a intake and a set of injector rails to get them machined and he looked at me like I was asking him to build me a part for the international space station. I mentioned it said on his site he does that and he said he didn't even know he had a website. I personally wouldnt let that guy gap the plug for my lawnmower.

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