Wideband questions.

[91CoupeMike]

So I have an innovate lc1.

The sensor has 2 outputs, 0-1v and 0-5v

My question is, can I use the 0-1v to feed my ECM? And the other to feed the gauge?

I don't see why it wouldn't work, it would be best because the sensor would be in the header collector and I wouldnt have to weld in a bung.

[Diabolic]

No.. The ECM uses a 5V signal. The LC1 is a very basic wideband at that. It will read in terms of AFR or lambda depending on the settings used inn logworks. The real limitation to the LC1 is the digital gauge that will always read in terms of 100% gasoline AFR where 1 Lambda=14.67AFR. The gauge cannot be changed. The newer MTXL costs the same as the LC1 but the gauge can be configured to display both AFR or Lambda. Just weld in a bung.

[91CoupeMike]

I didn't realize it used a 5v signal. My computer at az said it was a 0-1v signal.

Oh well. Thought it was going to be easy.

I have an older new in box lc1, before they offered them with a gauge. So I was told. I have a dynojet Gauge for it.

[91CoupeMike]

I'll post what I have exactly when I get home later.

[dville_gt]

not sure about the 5.0's, but the gm stuff uses 0-1v (with .5 being the switching point) for narrow band o2 sensors and you can use the innovates simulated 0-1v switching output in the fashion you are thinking, but i dont know if i would try it, especially if you are using a stock style sensor on the other bank.

[Diabolic]

Yes you are correct in refrence to the stock oxygen sensor voltage outputs. For some reason I thought he was wanting to log the information, like using the 0-5volt EGR signal. Why would you want to use a wideband sensor for everyday driving. The target AFR for closed loop operation is Lambda 1. So unless the tune is way off to begin with, the narrowband works for it's intended purpose just fine. It wouldn't be functional at all during wot.

[91CoupeMike]

I wanted to have it in the collector where the stock o2 goes.

Mainly using it to dial on the n2o and for datalogging and stuff once I get the tuning software/hardware.

Why would using it everyday be dumb? Yeah what it reads may be irrelevant but at wot is where I need to know where I'm at, and when spraying I'd like to make sure it's not lean.

[Sleeper]

I thaught the sensors for that where a little expensive.

[dville_gt]

I wanted to have it in the collector where the stock o2 goes.

Mainly using it to dial on the n2o and for datalogging and stuff once I get the tuning software/hardware.

Why would using it everyday be dumb? Yeah what it reads may be irrelevant but at wot is where I need to know where I'm at, and when spraying I'd like to make sure it's not lean.

i run my wideband full time. it's an oem sensor used by the factory in vw's. to the point, it can be used in place of the o2 sensor as the 0-1v output is a simulated narron band signal. the issue is how good of a simulation it is and if having a factory sensor on the other side might make it trim differently.

[91CoupeMike]

Oh ok I see what you mean now, I'll just take the xpipe and have the bung welded in place.

[Diabolic]

Mike you can disable one oxygen sensor in your tune if you don't want to add a bung, but I don't think it's possible to use the wideband sensor to show AFR and aid the computer in dialing in the AFR. One or the other.

[Diabolic]

On a side note, I noticed the GufB(Fox ECM) has a hack that allows you to change the target AFR in closed loop to adjust for fuel type. This is cool because if you ever run E85 all you need to do is change that value from gasoline stoich to E85 stoich and the narrowbands will dial it in. My 93 Lightning has this feature, but the 95 Cobra I owned did not.

[dville_gt]

6. Optionally, the YELLOW (Analog out 1) and/or BROWN (Analog out 2) can be connected
to the analog inputs of other devices such as data loggers, ECUs, or gauges. If either one or
both of these wires are not being used isolate and tape the wire(s) out of the way. The default
analog outputs are as follows: Analog output one is 1.1V = 14 AFR and .1V = 15 AFR. This is
a simulated narrowband signal.

the yellow wire is a simulated narrow band signal out of the box.

[turbostang]

Mike you can disable one oxygen sensor in your tune if you don't want to add a bung, but I don't think it's possible to use the wideband sensor to show AFR and aid the computer in dialing in the AFR. One or the other.

To the best of my knowledge, this is correct.

I don't see any value in using a wideband with a stock ECU like you're talking about (if I'm reading it right).

I don't think there's any close loop ability in a fox ecu strategy that would work with a wideband, but I've been out of the 'loop' for a while in that respect.

Truthfully, You don't want the correction to be able to make changes in closed loop anyways. Not on something that could 'hurt itself' anyways. If a car misfires, it pumps raw oxygen out the exhaust (along with unspent fuel). When this happens, the 02 picks that up as a 'lean condition' and will adjust fuel accordingly - even though there may not really be a need. Then the car over fuels and the ECU swings the other way trying to take fuel back that it just added... the part where you tear shit up. Aftermarket ECU's have a table that can adjust the amount of negative or positive correction and you can curb some of those close loop changes if you decide to use it. I can't remember if stock ECU's (in a fox) have that ability.
This is why most tuners setup a car in open loop, tune it till the tune is clean as they can get it - then enable closed loop. In theory, there will be very little correction like this. Some only allow closed loop down low, some not at all. Most of this above is 'extreme' conditions and a little bit off of what you inquired about - but you get the idea.

[dville_gt]

To the best of my knowledge, this is correct.

I don't see any value in using a wideband with a stock ECU like you're talking about (if I'm reading it right).

I don't think there's any close loop ability in a fox ecu strategy that would work with a wideband, but I've been out of the 'loop' for a while in that respect.

Truthfully, You don't want the correction to be able to make changes in closed loop anyways. Not on something that could 'hurt itself' anyways. If a car misfires, it pumps raw oxygen out the exhaust (along with unspent fuel). When this happens, the 02 picks that up as a 'lean condition' and will adjust fuel accordingly - even though there may not really be a need. Then the car over fuels and the ECU swings the other way trying to take fuel back that it just added... the part where you tear shit up. Aftermarket ECU's have a table that can adjust the amount of negative or positive correction and you can curb some of those close loop changes if you decide to use it. I can't remember if stock ECU's (in a fox) have that ability.
This is why most tuners setup a car in open loop, tune it till the tune is clean as they can get it - then enable closed loop. In theory, there will be very little correction like this. Some only allow closed loop down low, some not at all. Most of this above is 'extreme' conditions and a little bit off of what you inquired about - but you get the idea.

if he wired it correctly the stock close loop operation would use the "simulated" narrow band output (yellow wire) for trims while using the brown wire for wideband output. the only value would be not having to weld in an additional o2 bung, the problem i see is if the "simulated narrowband output" is accurate.