My experience with TrueStreet

[DON SVO]

I guess you guys did not read, We offered to take it apart. If it was on us then we would fix it. If it was nothing we did there was going to be a charge. we never had the car come back..... to take it apart

please re read my post

I'm of the opinion that this whole deal has just been a mess since the car left. There's going to be standoffish behavior because there is a lot of time and history in this car.

What keeps clicking in my head is all of the drive line issues and symptoms...


- new clutch and flywheel installed by TrueStreet
- car stays in gear after a dyno pull
- intermittent higher RPM vibration
- photos he posted show a demolished TO bearing and a mangled TO bearing engagement pawl
- says vibration is now completely gone after replacing those items and installing dowels into the flywheel

the dowels help align the pressure plate. They also keep the bolt holes lined up since there is slack room in the PP holes to flywheel. I could see how the lack of dowels (if missing) could allow the PP to shift and throw the rotating assembly off balance... the PP is in constant contact with the engine and it could have been walking around on the PP bolts... hence why there was a vibration when the trans was disengaged and the motor revved up. That would cause an intermittent vibration. It would also allow for improper engagement of the TO bearing which could explain the TO bearing blowing up. It would explain the clutch being engaged on the dyno if the PP shifter and allowed the fingers to be over-extended when the clutch was pressed in.

Why was it intermittent? Torque is a wonderful thing. The PP engages with the clutch and it scoots the PP over on a hard shift, it scoots back the other way (re-balancing itself slowly) during normal driving.

The engine rotating assembly is static, I do not see how there could be an intermittent vibration from the short block. You seem to agree as well, hence R&Ring the balancer.

I hope you guys can work this out, it sounds like a complete mess. I've heard nothing but good things about your shop, Clint.

[SEB]

I am not a absent owner, I know what is going on and am in the shop most of the day working close with my guys. Plus if my techs make a mistake or do somthing wrong, they are still paid so there is no reason for them to fear addmitting mistakes........

Well I have met you guys & you seem like a shop with Integrity & Values in how you run your business.

From a outsider point of view. It just comes across that you assumed it was the motor not being balanced & sent the guy on his way to fix the motor problem & out of common sense TJ got a second opionion before tearing out the motor. So if the motor vibrated it was either

A. Wrong Balancer

B. Un Balanced Rotating Assembly

C. Wrong Fly wheel IE 28oz or 50oz

I agree it would have been alot of work to check the flywheel. But if it wasnt the Balancer and it still vibrated. My next place I would check would be the correct Balanced Flywheel was installed. In which case the other shop suggested this I imagine & pulled the trans to check & when they found the Dowl Pin problem.

[snacksnack]

also what 3 mistakes are you talking about? there was a vibration, thats only one issue?

Just speaking of you saying your employes should not fear admitting a mistake which is just not common human nature. (maybe you have better then normal employes)

I was only making an example out of what you said which had nothing to do with this thread at this moment.

I never said this was the right way to handle the situation (did I) I believe I have mentioned this was handled wrong a few times and of course that would fall back on TJ as he never let you do a tear down or arranged with you to have another shop inspect it.


The only way something like this can get worked out is for the shop and the customer to work together. This should have happened when the vibration was noticed and or before more damaged had accrued. If he couldnt and or woudlnt leave it with you only makes things worse.

[dville_gt]

This situation reminds me of two things that have happened in my past.

1st - I was a tech at a local speed shop for a while and did a clutch on a 99-04 mustang gt. Everything went smooth and returned it to the customer. A few weeks later the car returns, on a flatbed! Clutch pedal is rock hard and wont disengage. We put it in the shop and I pull the trans. Look up and what do I see on the disc, "FLYWHEEL SIDE". My heart sank, it DESTROYED the disc/pressure plate and the fly wheel. I fessed up to my boss about it, told him that I must have put the disc in the wrong direction and that it was my fault. I could tell my boss at the time was trying to find a way out of paying, but I offered to foot the damages. Ended up throwing in a new clutch cable as well since it surely damaged the stock one. We easily could have lied about it since the owner didn't seem knowledgeable, but you better bet I never made that mistake again! As a previous tech I can tell you it was tough to ball up and admit I made the mistake even if I didn't think I was going to get canned, the owner's respect for me was on the line.

2nd- I just bought a house with pool, we decided to have the pool replastered. We shopped around and ended up going with a friend of my wife's fathers company. Turns out he subcontracts the plaster to another company (without telling us). The process was a nightmare, they drained the pool and didn't disable our pool pumps (which subsequently turned on which is very damaging to the pool equipment) and when confronted they only responded with "we did disable them". Then they shot plaster crap all over our brand new cedar fence that hadn't been sealed. They also failed to mention there were no start up chemicals included (thus making the marginally better deal we were getting actually worse then the company I wanted to use). But the real shit part of the deal was about 4 months later when it started getting cold I came home from work and the pool was about 2 feet low on water! I put a hose in it and could barely maintain the level. I call the pool company owner (my wifes friends father), and he said he'd send the plaster guys out to check it (they also installed a new light fixture in the pool, new drains, new returns, etc.) I get a call back from him later that day and said the plaster company had dived the pool (it was very cold at the time so wet suite dived), and inked it and couldn't find the leak and that it was going to cost $400 for the check. $400 to not find a leak that is gushing a thousand+ gallons a day, plus there had been no mention of any charge from the get go. I was furious and told him he wasn't going to see a dime. I ended up diving the pool (no suite mind you, FREEZING water), and found the leak was in the drain bucket where they had broken a cap and tryed to seal it with epoxy rather then just replace the $.50 cap, when the weather got cold the epoxy broke and opened a perfect 1"x1" square into the ground. I sent him a picture of it and told him he shouldn't pay the plaster company squat and he never had the balls to write me back. No possible way they every got in the pool and inked it and couldn't find a leak that large.

In my case the fact that the potential charges for checking their work should they not find anything were never expressed really pissed me off, but the lack of owning up after the fact just solidified it.

I think Clint is a good guy, I think the route of the problem here is the motor was built and brought to him, which opened the door for it being the first suspect to TS. The problem is that if it was really the dowel pins being left out (which much like the clutch disc above can happen), and they would have continued to take it apart and check the balance, then it would have of course been not perfectly balanced so it seems TJ would have been charged regardless, in which case it was probably better he had it done somewhere else.

I think taking Brooks up on the mediation would save TS some face and possibly get TJ a little closure.

Sorry for the e-novel.

[fordracing19]

I want to see pics of the pp mounting holes.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

[snacksnack]

I want to see pics of the pp mounting holes.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

back to the kitchen with you!

[TrueStreetMotorSports.com]

I'm of the opinion that this whole deal has just been a mess since the car left. There's going to be standoffish behavior because there is a lot of time and history in this car.

What keeps clicking in my head is all of the drive line issues and symptoms...


- new clutch and flywheel installed by TrueStreet Clutch was used and supplied by customer, We sold the flywheel to him- car stays in gear after a dyno pull this never happen
- intermittent higher RPM vibration
- photos he posted show a demolished TO bearing and a mangled TO bearing engagement pawl Agreed
- says vibration is now completely gone after replacing those items and installing dowels into the flywheel I am glad he says the car is fixed, But i promise you that motor has a issue

the dowels help align the pressure plate. They also keep the bolt holes lined up since there is slack room in the PP holes to flywheel. I could see how the lack of dowels (if missing) could allow the PP to shift and throw the rotating assembly off balance... the PP is in constant contact with the engine and it could have been walking around on the PP bolts... hence why there was a vibration when the trans was disengaged and the motor revved up. That would cause an intermittent vibration. It would also allow for improper engagement of the TO bearing which could explain the TO bearing blowing up. It would explain the clutch being engaged on the dyno if the PP shifter and allowed the fingers to be over-extended when the clutch was pressed in. And IF this was the case I can assure you we would of found it and taking care of it if the car would of come in

Why was it intermittent? Torque is a wonderful thing. The PP engages with the clutch and it scoots the PP over on a hard shift, it scoots back the other way (re-balancing itself slowly) during normal driving.
We only had the car for one day and everytime we started it it was always there. Maybe to a guy that dose not know cars (this customer) if he keep the car below 3000rpm he could not feel it. About 3000rpms he could, this would be intermittent to a untrained tech

The engine rotating assembly is static, I do not see how there could be an intermittent vibration from the short block. You seem to agree as well, hence R&Ring the balancer.

I hope you guys can work this out, it sounds like a complete mess. I've heard nothing but good things about your shop, Clint.

thanks my friend, I addmit we have made mistakes before just like anyone and everyone does. But we have always been giving the chance to make it right. Thats all a shop can do, at this point there is no way for us to make this a 100% with the way it was handled

[racrguy]

This is a fucking mess.....

[krazy kris]

I don't have a dog in the fight, but If I paid $5500 and the job didn't get done right. The person who did the job was ducking my calls and pm's like the OP said. I would of taken it somewhere else to. What's the guy supposed to do sit around with a broke dick car until someone wants to return a phone call? If the statements about TS ducking calls and PM's.

[Aceman85turbo]

In his eyes you would have covered up the dowel pins, sent his motor off to be rebuilt and charged him another $4k. I don't blame him because that's how most every shop out there operates, in order to break that generalization and make a reputation for yourself you must bite the bullet and fix stuff with no questions asked. send a tow truck, personally go to his house with a jack, etc..
I don't see how you would rather spew all this drama out here/the bbb as a shop owner rather than just put all your shit in the trunk of your car and go fix it. Out of the $2100 in labor you probably only went out of pocket $500-600 that leaves a LOT of room to fix this when it wouldn't cost you anything. Just like hundreds of shops before you this is now a permanent tarnish on you. It will probably end up costing you 10 times that in future profits.

[SEB]

In his eyes you would have covered up the dowel pins, sent his motor off to be rebuilt and charged him another $4k. I don't blame him because that's how most every shop out there operates, in order to break that generalization and make a reputation for yourself you must bite the bullet and fix stuff with no questions asked. send a tow truck, personally go to his house with a jack, etc..
I don't see how you would rather spew all this drama out here/the bbb as a shop owner rather than just put all your shit in the trunk of your car and go fix it. Out of the $2100 in labor you probably only went out of pocket $500-600 that leaves a LOT of room to fix this when it wouldn't cost you anything. Just like hundreds of shops before you this is now a permanent tarnish on you. It will probably end up costing you 10 times that in future profits.

To fix the problem it would have costed the shop nothing more then paying the tech to drop the trans which a good tech should be able to do in a hour & have it back together in 3 hours tops

[TrueStreetMotorSports.com]

Well I have met you guys & you seem like a shop with Integrity & Values in how you run your business. Thanks, we love what we do

From a outsider point of view. It just comes across that you assumed it was the motor not being balanced & sent the guy on his way to fix the motor problem That's not correct, we found a problem and at that point we advised the customer of what we found. The problem we found was consistent with the vibration so at that point we stop and let customer know there could be a charge and let him make the choice of how far he was willing to go & out of common sense TJ got a second opionion before tearing out the motor. So if the motor vibrated it was either.

A. Wrong Balancer Its the correct balancer

B. Un Balanced Rotating Assembly This is what we found out to be true

C. Wrong Fly wheel IE 28oz or 50oz Flywheel was correct
I agree it would have been alot of work to check the flywheel. But if it wasnt the Balancer and it still vibrated. My next place I would check would be the correct Balanced Flywheel was installed. customer advided more was not balance, this is the direction we went and check. We found a problem with the motor and let the customer know. If there was a problem with the flywheel or dowls we never got that far. But we did find a problem and advised customer. If we contuined and found out there issues we also would advive the customer. But we had a clear problem with the motor, In which case the other shop suggested this I imagine & pulled the trans to check & when they found the Dowl Pin problem.

I am in red

[TruestreetTim]

I don't have a dog in the fight, but If I paid $5500 and the job didn't get done right. The person who did the job was ducking my calls and pm's like the OP said. I would of taken it somewhere else to. What's the guy supposed to do sit around with a broke dick car until someone wants to return a phone call? If the statements about TS ducking calls and PM's.

I didn't come across any elaborations pertaining to the the "certified letter" that was sent. As soon as that "certified letter" arrived, TJ forfeited any further contact from us through any means until informed otherwise.

[TrueStreetMotorSports.com]

I don't have a dog in the fight, but If I paid $5500 and the job didn't get done right. The person who did the job was ducking my calls and pm's like the OP said. I would of taken it somewhere else to. What's the guy supposed to do sit around with a broke dick car until someone wants to return a phone call? If the statements about TS ducking calls and PM's.

This was not the case, I talk with him many time's, over many months, I told him what we found and he was not happy with the problem we found. I was sent a letter from him telling me he was going to sue me, this ends all contact from us at that point.

[BradM]

I am in red

I'm surprised, you'd think you would be in the black after this score.


I know that's not what you meant