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Air conditioning 101

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  • #16
    So in order to bring my old thread back to life like old Lazarus I wanted to add something about flushing ac systems due to an asshat at Oriellys arguing with me about it.
    There's different types of flush to use in an ac system. Im only going to talk about to 2 main ones youll see at a parts store. There's an oil type and a solvent.
    Castrol came out with this light oil flush abomination and it's absolutely snake oil junk. Youre supposed to use a closed loop flushing machine with it. Think about how this junk is supposed to work. You're using an oil to push more oil and debris out of the system. It's like using a lower viscosity oil to flush your engine. The oil doesnt clean jack crap. I got duped by the 50y/o assistant manager retard into using this junk once. I stuck it in the flush can and proceeded to spray this stuff through each metal componet. Then I flushed everything with air. Charged the system in this big rig and started it for testing. Everything worked fine for about 4 par sec's then a massive BOOM. Blew the high pressure line apart and shot oil over everything. When you're spraying oil into a a condenser or evaporator all that oil just sits in the bottom until the refrigerant blows it through and locks shit up. So a long story short dont use it and make sure the flush you use is solvent.
    Now there's a lot of controversy over how or when to flush an a/c system. Ill tell you what I do and you can do your own research if you want. There's only a few different cases when I flush a system. After a compressor goes bad, the system has been open for a while, or converting a system to r134a. An ac system doesnt need to be flushed because of any leak unless a line is completely un-hooked for a while and not plugged. Or if this system had 0psi in it. If there's any pressure left in the system then outside air isnt going to get in it
    If the compressor grenaded internally Ill flush the metal lines, and the evaporator. Ill change the condenser, rubber lines, o-tube or expansion valve, accumulator/receiver dryer, and obviously the compressor. When the compressor goes bad it either sends tiny metal shavings or melted teflon(black death) into the system. The shavings will impregnate the rubber hoses, get stuck in the desiccant in the accumulator/dryer, and plug up the o-tube/expansion valve so replace them. The only reason I dont replace the evaporator is due to the high amount of labor. Iv started replacing the condensers because the newer system are mostly a parallel flow or serpentine style that has tiny passages through it so the shavings get clogged into the passages at about 200-250psi. Reverse flushing with shop air(90-110psi) isnt going to get it out.
    So if you take your vehicle to a shop and they tell you that you need a flush due to a leak tell them to take a hike. And if a parts store button pusher hands you anything that says "A/C flush oil" through it at him.
    Last edited by stephen4785; 05-11-2015, 12:20 AM.

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    • #17
      Originally Posted by jyro
      I've been doing this for 30 years.
      That wasnt meant to be an attack on you or anything. I was trying to state it was information for people that havent worked on a/c systems. But your right. Its better to have to much info than not enough.
      And to clarify this comment I made, I was 25 y/o when I wrote that. I meant it like "I havent been doing this near as long as a lot of guys on this board so please give any info you want".
      Last edited by stephen4785; 05-11-2015, 12:21 AM.

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      • #18
        After re-reading my first post it's easier to post a picture of how the a/c system works then try to type it out.

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        • #19
          Good info

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          • #20
            I have a question for you. I just put on a new ac compressor, and it came with the correct diameter o rings, but super thick. I went ahead and used them and the system is working fine. I was wondering if you've seen this, and will it be ok.. the o rings are visible, and I tightened it down as much as possible.
            Last edited by 0393gt; 05-12-2015, 12:10 PM.
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            • #21
              Originally posted by 0393gt View Post
              I have a question for you. I just put on a new ac compressor, and it came with the correct diameter o rings, but super thick. I went ahead and used them and the system is working fine. I was wondering if you've seen this, and will it be ok.. the o rings are visible, and I tightened it down as much as possible.
              As long as it's not leaking right now I would leave it alone. Generally I try to compare the old o-rings and match them up as close as possible. But some times you have to make due. I wouldnt worry at all if they were just thicker.

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              • #22
                Cool, thanks. I may put some black rtv around it just to try to protect the rings from the heat.
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                • #23
                  Originally posted by 0393gt View Post
                  Cool, thanks. I may put some black rtv around it just to try to protect the rings from the heat.
                  I wouldnt worry about it. Nitrile rubber is rated to 210f. The metal around the motor will heat everything up but it wont get hotter than 170f. The rtv wont help because it's between two metal bodies that act like heat sinks. Besides it looks like its on the suction side so when you run the a/c it be cold.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by stephen4785 View Post
                    I wouldnt worry about it. Nitrile rubber is rated to 210f. The metal around the motor will heat everything up but it wont get hotter than 170f. The rtv wont help because it's between two metal bodies that act like heat sinks. Besides it looks like its on the suction side so when you run the a/c it be cold.
                    I have a question for you, based only on my observations. I know little of AC systems. Maybe you can tell me what is wrong with most shops, or if its just inherent in AC systems.

                    No ac work I've ever had done on any of my vehicles, has lasted more than a year. Sometimes they've only lasted 6 months. Are leaks like a huge problem that every AC tech constantly has to fight with? With my two older vehicles, its just leak after leak after leak. Have you ever installed a new AC system that lasted 5 or 10 years? Is this even possible?? I'm a bit frustrated with them right now.
                    WH

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Gasser64 View Post
                      No ac work I've ever had done on any of my vehicles, has lasted more than a year. Sometimes they've only lasted 6 months. Are leaks like a huge problem that every AC tech constantly has to fight with? With my two older vehicles, its just leak after leak after leak. Have you ever installed a new AC system that lasted 5 or 10 years? Is this even possible?? I'm a bit frustrated with them right now.
                      Think about why it's leaking, the rubber seals have probably deteriorated over time. When you replace just one seal that's leaking it doesn't help the other seals, one of them is now the weak spot and is going to fail next. You should replace all of the o-rings on an old system.

                      Obviously the high side seals are going to leak more often than the low side due to heat/pressure so at a minimum you should replace all of them.

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                      • #26
                        I agree. I hope this is the last time I gotta mess with this one. Not a lot of 1986 mustangs with ac these days. I'm kind of proud.
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                        • #27
                          I have working a/c in my 82 Regal and 81 Chevy 3/4 ton. They both have r4 compressors when ch are notorious for leaks. The advantage to doing auto repair for a living is having the equipment to properly service it myself.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by shumpertdavid View Post
                            I have working a/c in my 82 Regal and 81 Chevy 3/4 ton. They both have r4 compressors when ch are notorious for leaks. The advantage to doing auto repair for a living is having the equipment to properly service it myself.
                            You like to service yourself?
                            Putting warheads on foreheads since 2004

                            Pro-Touring Build

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                            • #29
                              Touche'

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by BP View Post
                                Think about why it's leaking, the rubber seals have probably deteriorated over time. When you replace just one seal that's leaking it doesn't help the other seals, one of them is now the weak spot and is going to fail next. You should replace all of the o-rings on an old system.

                                Obviously the high side seals are going to leak more often than the low side due to heat/pressure so at a minimum you should replace all of them.
                                Well on the mustang this all may be true. But on my silverado the whole system was replaced, and a warranty was included. I took it back to him 4 times under warranty, and each time he fixed a leak and replaced the missing fluid. And how he has retired, and the AC system has yet another leak. Ugh
                                WH

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