Air conditioning 101

[stephen4785]

Ill probably get banned from dfws so Im going to tranfer this thread over here so none of the info is lost

[stephen4785]

stephen4785 09-03-2007 03:30 PM
Air conditioning 101

Its that time of year again when the days are hot and not having a/c pisses you off. I get a lot of side work where people have tried to work on their a/c system themselves but don't understand how they work.If you decide to fix your a/c yourself and have question feel free to pm me or call and Ill answer any questions you have.Here's some basic info before you try to dump the can of Auto zone special in your car.
The a/c compressor has a suction side and discharge side. It sucks in freon (low side) and compresses it into a liquid and out the discharge side. The liquid Freon is then sent through the condenser on the front of the vehicle which removes heat from the freon. It goes from the condenser to a small opening before it goes into the evaporator in the cab. This causes the freon to turn into vapor. The freon vapor is extremely cold and absorbs heat from the cab. There is a blower motor that blows air over the evaporator. The freon is now at low pressure and leaves the evaporator and goes through an accumulator/drier. The accumulator/drier removes any moisture in the freon. After the freon leaves the accumulator/drier it is sucked back into the compressor and starts the cycle again. If you want a more detailed explanation and figures that show how it works go here http://home.howstuffworks.com/ac.htm
If there is no freon in the system due to a leak then the system is open to atmosphere. This causes debris to accumulate in the a/c system and the accumulator/drier to absorb more moisture then it is supposed to. The accumulator/drier has a bag if desiccant in it that is designed to remove .02% moisture from a closed a/c system. Consequently if you replace it make sure its the last thing you install because it needs to be under a vacuum as soon as possible.
Before you can charge an a/c system you need to pull a vacuum on the system.This removes all of the air and moisture from the system.And checks for leaks once you stop the vacuum pump and close the gauges.
If you replace and a/c component and then add one of the cans that has the little gauge on it theres is air in the system and moisture. You will get sub par performance. If you decide to add a can of stop leak to the system you are running the risk of damaging multiple a/c components that are expensive. Stop leak is much thicker than the oil thats in the system and will clog up the small orifice in the evaporator or clog up the compressor and damage the internal parts. The worst Iv seen stop leak do is grenade an a/c compressor's internals and shoot debris through the a/c system.
An a/c system should be able to blow 40-45 degree's out of the vents on a 95 degree day. This doesn't mean the entire cabin of the vehicle should also be 40-45 degrees.
The 2 biggest mistakes I see when fixing someone's a/c are-Not pulling a vacuum after opening the system and adding freon that has stop leak/booster/cleaner or any other additives you a/c doesnt need.
I hope this helps some of you.
edit-And yes I realize Freon is a trademark of R12 but it is what people commonly refer refrigerant to as so thats why I used Freon instead of refrigerant.

fordracing19 09-03-2007 03:34 PM
Re read what you wrote. Your cycle is wrong.

stephen4785 09-03-2007 03:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fordracing19
Re read what you wrote. Your cycle is wrong.
ah damn it. Fixed in a minute

stephen4785 09-03-2007 03:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fordracing19
Re read what you wrote. Your cycle is wrong.
better?

fordracing19 09-03-2007 03:54 PM
Yeah. Good job on the write up.

jyro 09-03-2007 04:05 PM
great writeup but

Just to be technically correct, the freon leaves the compressor as a hot gas and enters the condenser as a gas, changing to a liquid as the heat is removed.
One of the main problems I have found is the fan clutch not working good enough in traffic and not removing enough heat from the condenser while at low speed or idle. Fan clutches lose their ability to control the fan over the years and will still cool a motor but not move enough air for the ac.

stephen4785 09-03-2007 04:23 PM
Feel free to add any suggestions or tips. i started the thread in hopes that if someone tries to fix their own stuff they have good info to work from. I constantly get side work from people who tired info from the parts guy

03machman 09-03-2007 04:29 PM
I'll be workin on the Explorer later..thanks for the writeup thumbs up! :cool:

line-em-up 09-03-2007 04:45 PM
...

Stephen - Quote "It sucks in freon (low side) and compresses it into a liquid and out the discharge side. The liquid Freon is then sent through the condenser on the front of the vehicle which removes heat from the freon."

I thought the compressor just compresses the gas, which makes it hot (just like when the line on an air compressor gets hot from the gas being compressed). When the hot gas reaches the condenser, the high pressure gas is then cooled. As it releases its energy (heat), it turns to a liquid (condenses). The opposite happens when the gas goes through the orifice tube; it looses pressure and evaporates, absorbing heat in the process.

These 3 things are part of the physics of an AC system; Heat, pressure and physical state (gas or liquid). They are dependent on each other and one can't change without affecting another.

stephen4785 09-03-2007 05:57 PM
I really didnt want to get technical with the explanation. This was basic information for people that have no clue about how to work on an a/c system

jyro 09-03-2007 06:18 PM
all gases contain heat

Freon was used because it changes state at a useable presure and wasn't a poison gas . (*1. the same guy that invented leaded gasoline invented freon , Thomas Midgley )
Think of a air compressor, it sucks in air, that air has ambient heat in it. As the air is compressed by the piston in the compressor, the molecules are packed tighter together as well as the heat contained in the air, that's why the outlet line on a air compressor is hot.
The same is true for freon. Freon in gas form contains heat. when the compressor sucks in freon, it compresses the gas containing heat. At the discharge
there is compressed heat laden gas. What makes refrigerant gasses different is their ability to change form to a liquid as the heat is removed in the condenser. The more heat that is removed from the liquid refrigerant, the more heat it can absorb as it evaporates after crossing the orifice into the evaporator into the suction side of the compressor. That's the reason it's important to have good airflow across the condenser at low speed to have good cooling in traffic. Replacing a old fan clutch can add years to a compressors life.

*1. http://inventors.about.com/library/i...rs/blfreon.htm

[stephen4785]

jyro 09-03-2007 06:19 PM
and a good job you did!

Quote:
Originally Posted by stephen4785
I really didnt want to get technical with the explanation. This was basic information for people that have no clue about how to work on an a/c system
I've been doing this for 30 years.

jyro 09-03-2007 06:22 PM
just don't tell them

Quote:
Originally Posted by stephen4785
I really didnt want to get technical with the explanation. This was basic information for people that have no clue about how to work on an a/c system
how we train those fire ants!


blue88lx 09-03-2007 09:19 PM
Thanks Setphen, and all the others. Great explanation for the dummies.

Joebum 09-03-2007 09:58 PM
check yo pm's!

Pro88LX 09-03-2007 10:03 PM
all i know is im glad i had you fix mine, because its cold as fuck LOL

Big Studly 09-03-2007 10:17 PM
expansion valve or capilary? Pretty important and not many people realize what it is or its significance.

Da Prez 09-03-2007 10:22 PM
all i know is that i need to get you my audi...

stephen4785 09-04-2007 12:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Da Prez
all i know is that i need to get you my audi...
Bring it over and it will blow ice when Im done.

stephen4785 09-04-2007 12:12 AM
I don't suggest anyone try and figure out all of this stuff by them selves. You'll have a lot better result doing it with someone who knows what there doing.
To do the service right your gonna need an a/c manifold gauge set,a can tap,vacuum pump,flush gun, shrader valve removal tool,uv light,snifer, thermometer, and some way to add oil/dye to name a few things. The gauge set,vacuum pump,sniffer are all expensive. I dont know of any place that rents them or many techs that like to loan out that stuff to someone learning. But IMO if you work on your own car this stuff will pay for its self if you only use it twice in your lifetime.
A $1000+ qoute from a shop is pretty normal for a/c jobs. You can find all of these tools on ebay and for cheap and theres plenty of people on this board that do great work on the side and will be willing to answer some questions you have.

[stephen4785]

stephen4785 09-04-2007 12:14 AM
You have to vacuum the system after replacing any components that open the system to atmosphere! If you dont there will be air and moisture in the system. The air can not escape on its own and your a/c will not blow nearly cold enough.

stephen4785 09-04-2007 12:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jyro
I've been doing this for 30 years.
That wasnt meant to be an attack on you or anything. I was trying to state it was information for people that havent worked on a/c systems. But your right. Its better to have to much info than not enough.

Big Studly 09-04-2007 02:17 PM
can you still get R-12, or get someone to service R-12?

palapa86 09-04-2007 09:00 PM
a/c repair

I am not an a/c guy, but I understand that R12 is still around, but expensive as hell ! I am currently in the process of getting my a/c totally replaced. The guy doing it is an ace ! He picked up a new compressor for $225, and he is only charging me $350 for the whole job. The only question I have is about the freon. He said he will put in a refridgerant that is not near expensive, but gets the air cold as a witches ....! But I hear it's dangerous, as explosive, but only if you hit something head on, at a high speed ! Thats a little scary, but he said he uses it in most units and saves a bunch of bucks! Does anybody know of this stuff? I'm willing to try it, hell, he put it in his Mothers car and it was very cold !

Big Studly 09-04-2007 10:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by palapa86
I am not an a/c guy, but I understand that R12 is still around, but expensive as hell ! I am currently in the process of getting my a/c totally replaced. The guy doing it is an ace ! He picked up a new compressor for $225, and he is only charging me $350 for the whole job. The only question I have is about the freon. He said he will put in a refridgerant that is not near expensive, but gets the air cold as a witches ....! But I hear it's dangerous, as explosive, but only if you hit something head on, at a high speed ! Thats a little scary, but he said he uses it in most units and saves a bunch of bucks! Does anybody know of this stuff? I'm willing to try it, hell, he put it in his Mothers car and it was very cold !
what is it called?

Bad89stang 09-04-2007 11:24 PM
He is most likely refrerring to Freeze 12. The description of it is not accurate but I will let him have his fun.

stephen4785 09-04-2007 11:31 PM
I can get cans of R12 for around $30 per can

Pro88LX 09-04-2007 11:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stephen4785
Bring it over and it will blow ice when Im done.
True Story.

Big Studly 09-05-2007 08:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stephen4785
I can get cans of R12 for around $30 per can
so how many cans typically fill a system?

palapa86 09-05-2007 09:45 AM
Freeze 12

3 cans should do it.
Ok, so its freeze 12, and I'm having loads of fun! Question is, is it really dangerous, and why is it so much cheaper than R12?

Big Studly 09-05-2007 10:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by palapa86
3 cans should do it.
Ok, so its freeze 12, and I'm having loads of fun! Question is, is it really dangerous, and why is it so much cheaper than R12?
I'd be curious about this also.....I am looking at adding a/c to my '65. I can find an OE compressor for dirt cheap compared to the new Sanden compressors. I hear running R-134a out of the OE compressors causes them to sieze, so I would want to stick with R-12, but if freeze 12 does the same thing and won't cause the compressor to sieze, I would be interested in going that route.

[stephen4785]

mikeb 09-05-2007 12:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by palapa86
3 cans should do it.
Ok, so its freeze 12, and I'm having loads of fun! Question is, is it really dangerous, and why is it so much cheaper than R12?
There are a lot of rumors floating around that freeze 12 contains propane. True or not I don't know but it seems like it would be easy enough to squirt some into a small sack or bag and see if it will explode when set on fire (from a safe distance, of course).

Edit: the manufacturer says it will not burn:

http://www.freeze12.com/

jyro 09-05-2007 10:50 PM
I wasn't being my regular smart ass self

Quote:
Originally Posted by stephen4785
That wasnt meant to be an attack on you or anything. I was trying to state it was information for people that havent worked on a/c systems. But your right. Its better to have to much info than not enough.
Just a fact.


freeze 12 is a combo of 2 different refrigerant gases HCFC-142b and HFC-134a.
both are available and unlike r-12, not banned. That's why it's cheaper than R-12.
Usually, you void any warranty on the compressor whan you use it. Thay have ways to test for it.

line-em-up 09-05-2007 10:52 PM
...

I've used Freeze12 in my car for years with zero problems. It cools good with less head pressure, so it's easier on the compressor.

jyro 09-05-2007 11:03 PM
not that it really matters but

this is from freeze12's site

What is the warranty of a new compressor using Freeze 12 ?

At this time some evaluations are taking place which will determine the warranty situation of a new compressor using Freeze 12. Currently there are no new compressor warranty endorsements for Freeze 12. We expect this to change as there were no new compressor warranties in the beginning for R-134a retrofits and now most compressor manufacturers offer them.

stephen4785 09-06-2007 01:00 AM
Iv used freeze 12 in the past with success. I dont recomend it to anyone but if someone is broke it could be alternative.

stephen4785 09-06-2007 01:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Studly
so how many cans typically fill a system?
Just depends on the year. Older 70-80's cars use around 3lbs. The newer the car the less freon it holds. An 05+ will hold around .8-1.0lb

[stephen4785]

David L. Gary 09-06-2007 10:40 PM
Good article

The guy that wrote all of this is pretty well hitting the nail on the head. Have your A/C checked at the first of the summer or check it yourself as preventive maintenance. A system that is too low can burn up a compressor. There are a few little points I like to bring up to AC class experts (I have to take these on a priodical basis). Ask these in a class and see what these "EXPERTS" say.

1. How can you remove any more moisture when maximum vacume (spell check) is achieved since the moisture has to be carried on gas molecules? This is why clouds float and rain falls. Hint.....purge the system with a dry and inert gas such as nitrogen. Also a backwoods way to clear out your system without a vacume pump or check for leaks on the cheap.
2. How long should you pull a vacume? Most sytems can be pulled down in less than five minutes. I have listened to all sorts of BS on this from letting the gasses trapped in the oil escape to pulling out the moisture again. I think the guy doing this just wants to smoke a cigarette for half an hour and charge you for the time.
3. How long should you hold this vacume? Long enough check for leaks is my opinion. Again the experts have their own opinion.
4. What is the purpose of an accumulator? "It is a secondary expansion chamber to make sure no liquid reaches the compressor." "Liquids do not compress and will destroy a compressor." Many systems do not have this feature nor do they need it. As a matter of fact most return/suction hoses are insulated to make sure that the returning gasses are somewhat cool to cool the compressor to keep it from overheating. Dont believe me, just walk outside and look at your home unit. Insulated is it not? Here length and outside temp is a huge factor. On automobiles an accumulator is mostly a muffler. Just cut one apart and tell me what is in it. The drier/charcoal canister is what removes the mosture and excess oils and liquids.

These are only a small portion of HVAC headaches. This is why it costs so much to have your airconditioning fixed. Knowledge is expensive and expierience is even more so. The funny part is that quite often I call a professional to work on my own stuff because they usually have the parts on hand and can fix it in one visit. Going days without AC sucks.

stephen4785 07-21-2008 08:37 AM
There is an excellent website forum for a lot of a/c stuff on www.ackits.com
heres some of their tips
1. Poor system performance could be faulty reed valves. A hissing sound from the compressor immediately after shutdown indicates high side to low side pressure leakage. To check this, attach manifold gauges and turn compressor on. Readings showing lower than normal discharge pressures and high suction pressures or a rapid stabilization of gauge readings shortly after shutdown indicate leaking reed valves or head gasket.

2. While performing any service work on a vehicle always inspect the condenser's surface area. Dirt, bugs and any other debris will restrict air flow therefore reducing the condenser's ability to dissipate heat properly. It is recommended that on long haul trucks, off road equipment (construction, logging, mining etc) and agriculture machines that this be done on a regular monthly basis. Also be careful not to bend or damage the fins in the process of cleaning.

3. Did you know that...the refrigerant oil color can often provide us with some idea of the compressor and internal system conditions? Black Oil indicates carbonization caused by air (moisture) in the system. Brown Oil indicates copper plating caused by moisture in the system. Grey or Metallic oil indicates bearing wear or piston scoring. Piston scoring may be attributed to high head pressure caused by system moisture.

4. When replacing the clutch assembly always make sure to re-install the snap rings properly. Snap rings have two sides, one is flat and the other beveled. The beveled side should always go to the outside to ensure proper fit.

5. Always be aware of Refrigerant Replacements. R-415b is being touted as an R12 and in some cases an R134a replacement. This refrigerant ASHRAE Name : R-415b(25% HCFC-22 / 75% HFC-152a)is a BLEND and is also highly flammable. We at Omega do not recommend the use of this blend for any of our customers.

Dangers you should be aware of...
Although it has an ASHRAE designation it has not been accepted by any of the mayor vehicle manufacturers outside of China. Any use of this product will invalidate warranties on OEM products and with Omega. Do not use flames or torches to search for leaks especially with this product.

6. When working with either PAG or Ester oils always be sure to keep the container capped when your not using. The chemical makeup of these types of oils will absorb moisture and can create a problem in the a/c system later.

7. Heat is present everywhere. A/C systems are designed to remove heat from one place to another. There are three laws that must be present for refrigeration systems to exchange heat from inside a passenger compartment to the outside atmosphere. First of all, Heat travels to cold or less heat. Second of all, Condensation releases or dissipates heat. Last, Evaporation captures heat. Using the laws of refrigeration in a closed loop circuit of components, temperatures can be controlled. I.E. Automotive a/c system.

8. A/C systems can be contaminated with metal particles from the normal wear of the compressor and tiny amounts of water moisture. Contamination can cause a system to fail. Protection against contamination is provided by the filter screen on the Expansion Tube and the desiccant in the bottom of the dryer or accumulator. Other forms of contamination may be the wrong kind of oil, wrong kind of liquid charge or other material that will interfere with the cooling system. Almost 100% of moisture is normally removed from the system when it is evacuated prior to installing (R12 or R134a), but flushing the entire system will be the only way to remove any particles.

9. When either installing a new a/c system or doing a service job always make the drier the last component replaced before evacuation and recharge. The desiccant in the drier absorbs moisture and will decrease performance and create a problem to the system at a later date. Moisture and refrigerant when combined creates an acid and will damage the internal parts of the a/c system.
10. Summer Checkup, what can you do?

There are different types of checks that can be done on the ac. Most checks include the following. Visual inspection of the compressor and lines for signs of A/C oil leakage, noise inspection, belt inspection, testing the low and high side pressures for the proper amount of refrigerant, A/C output vent temperature test, inspecting and cleaning drain tube, inspection and confirmation of proper fan operation.

11. Things to do and look for when draining oil from a compressor... 1) At what ambient was the comp drained at? Hot = more drained oil, Cold = slow/ less oil. 2) Were the ports / caps removed to prevent a vacuum? 3) Was the oil drained and measured from the cylinder head as well as the compressor body? 4) Please remember that depending on the temp at time of draining that aprox 1/2+ oz will remain in the compressor. 5) When the compressor was drained was the compressor crank turned or rotated? 6) How long was the compressor drained?

Did you know?
Some new compressors can leave the factory without an oil charge but checks and balances in most manufacturer's processes at several different stations that check precise weights of individual and pallet compressors and electronic monitors at the filling station make it hard to pass through. To be on the safe side always check your new compressor for oil.

12. What's the musky smell out my vents? The first component to check is the drainage tube. If the tube is blocked it will trap the water and cause mildew to set it. Some vehicles have a foam type material that surrounds the evaporator. If this foam becomes wet from condensation or other means then it also has the tendency to cause the musky smell. There are procedures that can be done to eliminate the problem.

The second component to check would be the a/c cabin filter.
For years, Import vehicles have incorporated these cabin filters. Cabin Filters work in the same manner as a home cabin filter. If dirty can give a foul odor and poor air flow. Most auto manufactures recommend to replace every 10 to 15K miles. Most cabin filters are located behind the glove box in the evaporative box (see owners manual for location and replacement instructions).

13. While performing any service work on a vehicle always inspect the condenser's surface area. Dirt, bugs and any other debris will restrict air flow therefore reducing the condenser's ability to dissipate heat properly. It is recommended that on long haul trucks, off road equipment (construction, logging mining, etc) and agriculture machines that this be done on a regular monthly basis. Also be careful not to bend or damage the fins in the process of cleaning.

[stephen4785]

stephen4785 07-21-2008 08:43 AM
From www.ackits.com
Testing clutch coil resistance.
The other night I was at a a/c clinic and this was suggested as an easy way to check if you have a bad clutch coil. Get a 6 foot section of wire with a removable fuse holder. Place a 6 amp fuse in this holder and attach each end to you clutch coil terminals. Fire up the a/c system and if in 10 to 15 minutes its still working you are okay. If the fuse is blown good chance you have a bad clutch coil.

I don't recall what size wire to use but its a no brainier. Nothing too small and no battery cables!

stephen4785 07-21-2008 08:48 AM
Lots of good tips/tricks here

http://www.autoacforum.com/categories.cfm?catid=20

HOOCBB 07-21-2008 09:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stephen4785
1. Poor system performance could be faulty reed valves. A hissing sound from the compressor immediately after shutdown indicates high side to low side pressure leakage. To check this, attach manifold gauges and turn compressor on. Readings showing lower than normal discharge pressures and high suction pressures or a rapid stabilization of gauge readings shortly after shutdown indicate leaking reed valves or head gasket.
I have a hissing on shutdown, but I had attributed it to removal of the intake silencer. I guess I should look a bit closer at my compressor even though I already know it is leaking. I'm just trying to limp it through this summer and I will replace it late fall unless it fails before then. As it stands, I am adding 134a to it at a rate of about 1/2 can per month. I monitored the pressures with the system on Max A/C and blowing on high with the windows open and they stayed pretty solid, so as of now it appears that the compressor will make it a little while longer.

BTW, I am not a DIYer when it comes to A/C...just have not done it for money in a few years.

Thanks for the info, I had forgotten a lot of this stuff by not doing it for so long.

stronjay 07-22-2008 09:35 PM
r12

Quote:
Originally Posted by stephen4785
ah damn it. Fixed in a minute
2 questions for ya...

How much to charge an ac on a 1990 cutlass with r12 and how much for a can of r12? I told someone I had it and they wanna buy it...Said it was liquid gold...Can ya hook a brother up?

jw33 07-22-2008 09:52 PM
Lets say a guy wanted to build an A/C system for their car and wanted to know what type of line connections would work the best? Is there a certain style to stay away from?

BP 07-22-2008 10:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HOOCBB
I have a hissing on shutdown, but I had attributed it to removal of the intake silencer. I guess I should look a bit closer at my compressor even though I already know it is leaking.
The hissing is probably just the pressures stabilizing. You've got 350+psi on the high side and 30-40 psi on the low side depending on ambient temperatures, obviously there are going to be some pressure changes when shutting the system down.

As for leaks if it's is as bad as you say it should be fairly obvious where it's coming from.

one bad 69 07-22-2008 10:22 PM


BP 07-22-2008 10:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jw33
Lets say a guy wanted to build an A/C system for their car and wanted to know what type of line connections would work the best? Is there a certain style to stay away from?
The damned Ford spring lock connectors are a pain in the ass. Great when first installed but they suck ass after a few years in service. As for the best there are really only a few options. You've got the damned spring lock bastards that Ford uses, the flared o-ring style that GM uses and the bolt down o-ring styles that everyone else uses.

I'm a fan of the bolt down o-ring style personally. They don't leak and it's really difficult to get into a cross threaded or corroded thread situation with them. Just make sure you apply a generous amount of PAG oil to the o-rings before tightening the bolt.

UNICORN 07-22-2008 10:42 PM
Oh good another post from an "ASE" certified parts changer who ni**er rigs every car a/c system he gets his hands on. *golf clap*

Well at least you know how to copy and paste well.

BP 07-22-2008 10:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNICORN
Oh good another post from an "ASE" certified parts changer who ni**er rigs every car a/c system he gets his hands on. *golf clap*

Well at least you know how to copy and paste well.
I'm hoping you aren't talking about me but you'd be amazed how many hacks there are out there doing a/c work. I had a guy return a compressor last week because the pressures were too high. The sad part is that it was a tech at a GM dealer!

I'm guessing the $750 AC Delco unit magically cleared the restriction in the condenser that my $250 Denso couldn't. On this vehicle Denso is the OEM supplier for AC Delco, meaning it's the exact same part. Just no 300% GM markup.

Maverick 07-22-2008 10:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stronjay
2 questions for ya...

How much to charge an ac on a 1990 cutlass with r12 and how much for a can of r12? I told someone I had it and they wanna buy it...Said it was liquid gold...Can ya hook a brother up?

WHY???

[Chili]

Damn, I didn't know that even existed.. Sure wish I had 4 months ago.

[ozzeran]

yeah I remember that thread, its great info.

[Lone Sailor]

We'll have to start up another sticky thread with what everyone does/can do, like before. Seemed to be a good tool.

[stephen4785]

Damn, I didn't know that even existed.. Sure wish I had 4 months ago.

I requested a sticky on dfws and got a prompt "no"

[Josh.0]

Good stuff.

[PLYBOY302]

Stephan4785 I sent you a PM of you get a chance to read it. Thanks

[jyro]

the other site had a technical section, like a how-to area for these kind of posts.

I don't think it was used much but I put some stuff there

[chevyboy523]

H&h