About to buy Dart 351w based stroker, Which one?

[SMEGMA STENCH]

Also, if you know Adam, you know he'll never be happy with a 302 based motor.

Could you outline for me what is wrong with the 302 that he wouldn't like? I'm just ignorant and trying to learn. My guess is the smaller displacement has its limits?

[Sick88lx]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not doing doubting the 8.2, I was just taking a jab at Mike that thinks he knows it all.

Also, if you know Adam, you know he'll never be happy with a 302 based motor.

BTW, if you want to get technical, my .060 351w in my Coupe is a 363. It is weak IMO, so why would a 302 based 363 motor be any better than my 351w based 363?

Maybe because your swinging a 3" main crank instead of a 2.249" main crank, and that crank also happens to be 10lbs more of rotating mass. Or that your comparing a 4.060" bore to a 4.125" bore. I'm sure im forgetting some technical info so why don't you indulge me.

[351Coupe]

Could you outline for me what is wrong with the 302 that he wouldn't like? I'm just ignorant and trying to learn. My guess is the smaller displacement has its limits?

At the risk of people criticizing me, yes. I'm sorry if people don't agree. Obviously there are serious 8.2 deck motors out there, even in the professional race classes. But the fact is that power/torque will always be easier with more cubes.

By no means am I an expert, in fact I'm a noob, but think about it. All the serious 10.5 classes and better (think old Pro 5.0 and Outlaw) always use 351w based 400+ cube motors, and they do it for a reason. It's always going to be easier with more cubes IMO.

[351Coupe]

Maybe because your swinging a 3" main crank instead of a 2.249" main crank, and that crank also happens to be 10lbs more of rotating mass. Or that your comparing a 4.060" bore to a 4.125" bore. I'm sure im forgetting some technical info so why don't you indulge me.

Torque.

I mean, if I'm wrong, I don't have a problem with that. I just want proof. But if a 302 based block is so superior, why aren't more professional teams running it over a 351w based motor?

Hey, I'm still learning too. I'm not trying to argue, I'm just trying to figure out where you guys are coming from. I've got one car running a 351w based motor (soon to be two), and three vehicles running 302 based motors (Also soon to be two, needless to say I like the 351's). I've seen both sides. It's just that IMO, 351 based motors are more to my liking.

[Sick88lx]

Torque.

I mean, if I'm wrong, I don't have a problem with that. I just want proof. But if a 302 based block is so superior, why aren't more professional teams running it over a 351w based motor?

Hey, I'm still learning too. I'm not trying to argue, I'm just trying to figure out where you guys are coming from.

Torque?? Do you want to pull a trailer or race a car?? Your comparing your stock block windsor .060" over to a 302 based 363. First of all to even accomplish this with a 302 you need an aftermarket block. So with that you already have a stronger foundation than that of your stock block Windsor.

Yes an Aftermarket 351 based motor would be easier to accomplish the goals but that doesn't mean it's not possible to achieve with a 302 based motor. Your induction has alot to do with this as well. Build a 454 with some performer heads and I'll build a 363 with Highports and we'll see who makes more power. Enjoy your torque

[351Coupe]

Torque?? Do you want to pull a trailer or race a car?? Your comparing your stock block windsor .060" over to a 302 based 363. First of all to even accomplish this with a 302 you need an aftermarket block. So with that you already have a stronger foundation than that of your stock block Windsor.

Yes an Aftermarket 351 based motor would be easier to accomplish the goals but that doesn't mean it's not possible to achieve with a 302 based motor. Your induction has alot to do with this as well. Build a 454 with some performer heads and I'll build a 363 with Highports and we'll see who makes more power. Enjoy your torque

Well, for starters, you said it yourself. "To even accomplish this with a 302 you need an aftermarket block."
I guess you're right. Torque has no place in getting a car moving off the line, in the first 60 ft., where the most important time is made in an 1/8 or 1/4 mile. A 351w based motor could NEVER be as quick as a 302 based motor in that race.

[Sick88lx]

Well, for starters, you said it yourself. "To even accomplish this with a 302 you need an aftermarket block."
I guess you're right. Torque has no place in getting a car moving off the line, in the first 60 ft., where the most important time is made in an 1/8 or 1/4 mile. A 351w based motor could NEVER be as quick as a 302 based motor in that race.

What do you think TORQUE Converters are for??? It's more than obvious this is way over your head, you should probably go back to comparing 60ft's on Gran Turismo.

[351Coupe]

What do you think TORQUE Converters are for??? It's more than obvious this is way over your head, you should probably go back to comparing 60ft's on Gran Turismo.

Okay, lol. You're right. Everyone uses 302 based blocks and 351w based blocks are shit. Lol, come on man!

[351Coupe]

What do you think TORQUE Converters are for??? It's more than obvious this is way over your head, you should probably go back to comparing 60ft's on Gran Turismo.

BTW, if that's actually your car, (Junkyard Dog, BTW, Ain't nothing junk about that car anynmore!) I've got to say that's sick! I've liked that car for a long time!

I'm just saying it's just easier for a poor mofo like me to go quick with a windsor based motor. That's all.

[Sick88lx]

Okay, lol. You're right. Everyone uses 302 based blocks and 351w based blocks are shit. Lol, come on man!

I never said that, you were asking why a 8.2 deck 363 would be better than your windsor version of a 363. My response was clearly over your head. Your respsonse was...."Torque".....as if were comparing a big block to a small block.

[351Coupe]

I never said that, you were asking why a 8.2 deck 363 would be better than your windsor version of a 363. My response was clearly over your head. Your respsonse was...."Torque".....as if were comparing a big block to a small block.

Okay, now I see what you are saying.

But I guess I fucked up in what I said. I wasn't specific enough. What I meant was that a properly built 418 -427w engine (which is what the o.p. was asking about) should easily outpower a 363ci 302 based block. Do you not agree?

I'm not trying to be a smartass, I'm just wondering.

[Sick88lx]

BTW, if that's actually your car, (Junkyard Dog, BTW, Ain't nothing junk about that car anynmore!) I've got to say that's sick! I've liked that car for a long time!

I'm just saying it's just easier for a poor mofo like me to go quick with a windsor based motor. That's all.

If your starting from scratch sure it will be easier with a windsor but like us we went with what we had and tried to make the best of it. In the end knowledge is key and you have to make the best with what you know, or pay for someone else's knowledge.


As far as the original poster goes it depends on what your starting with and what's your budget. What are your ultimate goals with the car??

[351Coupe]

If your starting from scratch sure it will be easier with a windsor but like us we went with what we had and tried to make the best of it. In the end knowledge is key and you have to make the best with what you know, or pay for someone else's knowledge.


As far as the original poster goes it depends on what your starting with and what's your budget. What are your ultimate goals with the car??

Well, like he stated in the first post, he's starting with a windsor based motor. He already has one, so he is already there with swap parts and what not. The car already has a windsor, so why not build a 427 over a 363 302 based motor?

Maybe I had the wrong impression. I was thinking that you guys were saying a 363 stroker (302 based) motor would be better for him than a 418-427w. It just didn't make sense to me. It's like me with my 68 Coupe, I already have a 351w as a basic starting point, why would I not improve on that foundation instead of going with a maxed out smaller 302 based motor? It would be the same displacement as my .060 351w which is my starting point. Why would I not stick with that when I could go with 427+ci with what I already have?

I obvoiusly don't have the expererience as others here, I genuinely want to learn.

[Sick88lx]

Okay, now I see what you are saying.

But I guess I fucked up in what I said. I wasn't specific enough. What I meant was that a properly built 418 -427w engine (which is what the o.p. was asking about) should easily outpower a 363ci 302 based block. Do you not agree?

I'm not trying to be a smartass, I'm just wondering.

That's not as easy answer as it may seem. Again you'd be surprised what can be accomplished with the correct setup. Your induction will be the limiting factor. The 302 will have to work harder to make the same type of power but it can be done, it's not cheap though.

[Sick88lx]

Well, like he stated in the first post, he's starting with a windsor based motor. He already has one, so he is already there with swap parts and what not. The car already has a windsor, so why not build a 427 over a 363 302 based motor?

Maybe I had the wrong impression. I was thinking that you guys were saying a 363 stroker (302 based) motor would be better for him than a 418-427w. It just didn't make sense to me. It's like me with my 68 Coupe, I already have a 351w as a basic starting point, why would I not improve on that foundation and go with a smaller 302 based motor? I mean a maxed out 302 would result in the same displacement as my .060 351w which is my starting point. Why would I not stick with that when I could go with 427+ci with that?

I obvoiusly don't have the expererience as others here, I genuinely want to learn.

Yes it would be the easiest choice to stay with the windsor for sure. Same route I'd go. I think a few people just threw the 363 deal out there to be open minded to all options.