$25 to whoever diagnoses my brake problem

[ZYouL8R]

Situation: Months ago I replaced my calipers with another used F-body set and my brake lines with some Russell Stainless lines. I replaced the calipers because I was getting rid of my Pro Stars and didn't want the shaved ones anymore. My brakes had always performed flawlessly and I had a good pedal feel.

After I replaced everything, I bled, bled, and bled some more, but there were always bubbles. I found a couple of the fittings leaking, so I tightened them, bled a few more times, but still the same amount of bubbles. Nothing was changing. So I bought the Motive Power Bleeder and the thing works awesome, but still the same amount of bubbles. I'm not talking about a couple here and there, I'm talking about a good 10 seconds of bubbles per caliper, every time.

So today I took the MC off the car and bench bled it. Maybe I wasn't doing it right, but the bubbles never went away. I would push in the cylinder, a few bubbles would come out, I would release, then some of the bubbles would get sucked back up. So I'd push it in again, pinch off the line, but it didn't do any better. Every time I pushed in the cylinder, bubbles would come out. So I said "F it", maybe this is how it's supposed to be. Put it back on the car, bled from the calipers I couple more times, but still the same amount of bubbles as always. There are no visible leaks anywhere.

I am at a complete loss. I have done everything short of rolling my car off a cliff. I have gone through at least 6 quarts of fluid at this point and nothing has changed. I mean, the amount of bubbles hasn't even decreased. My pedal goes all the way to the floor, but it does hold some pressure.

So if someone can give me something, anything, and it fixes my problem, I will pay you $25 the day of. Could there be something wrong with the new calipers? Is there an easy way to spot a leak in the system if it's one of the lines or fittings? Please help!

Forgot to mention I have an ABS delete on this car, so no ABS box to bleed.

[krazy kris]

you suck at brakes, buy a new pos, now pay up

[Johnny Armijo]

Try gravity bleeding it, I had the same prob on my bronco. I gavity bled it and its good now.

[BlueCoupeRedVert]

On the s/s lines.... did you put new copper washers on?? Those are for the most part, a one time install.

[ZYouL8R]

On the s/s lines.... did you put new copper washers on?? Those are for the most part, a one time install.

Yes, new copper washers on both sides of the fitting.

[BlueCoupeRedVert]

Yes, new copper washers on both sides of the fitting.

cool, for the hell of it... have put your old calipers back on? you sure the new used calipers are ok?

[Armedtrigger01]

Did you over extend the master some masters can't handle being pushed to the floor it blows the seals out.

[ZYouL8R]

cool, for the hell of it... have put your old calipers back on? you sure the new used calipers are ok?

Sold the old ones.

I'm not sure the new ones are ok, but wouldn't there have to be a leak of some sort for all this air to get in the lines?

Did you over extend the master some masters can't handle being pushed to the floor it blows the seals out.

Never heard of this, but it's possible. Would this allow air in the MC? This might explain why I could never get bubble-free fluid when I was bleeding it.

[shumpertdavid]

Let's cover the basics on bleeding brakes. To pressure bleed using brake pedal you pump the pedal several times, hold pedal down,while assistant opens 1 bleeder, bleed air/fluid then close bleeder and release pedal. Then repeat. Or style 2, open 1 bleeder, press pedal down slowly to floor, hold pedal on floor while assistant closes bleeder, repeat until straight fluid. If at any point you release pedal with bleeder open then air sucks back into system. To bench bleed master cylinder I use a fitting in each port with a clear tube going back into master cylinder and slowly work master cylinder until clear fluid with no bubbles. If you are doing all this and still getting air then you have something in the system sucking air when you release the pedal. Most likely in the components you've replaced since it worked fine before you opened the system up. I strongly recommend you re bench bleed the master, as you need to remove all air there before working rest of,system.

[BlueCoupeRedVert]

Are the calipers the exact same model? same piston count/bore? I remember years ago when i 5lug converted my 90 coupe with 95 gt calipers, then later put the Cobra calipers and 13" rotors on it WOULD not work with the gt m/c. pedal just about hit the floor. It absolutly needed the cobra m/c. Just one more thought for you. lol

[Blackpony]

I would say you have gotten some air in the master. Follow these steps^^^

[ZYouL8R]

Are the calipers the exact same model? same piston count/bore? I remember years ago when i 5lug converted my 90 coupe with 95 gt calipers, then later put the Cobra calipers and 13" rotors on it WOULD not work with the gt m/c. pedal just about hit the floor. It absolutly needed the cobra m/c. Just one more thought for you. lol

Yep, they are definitely the correct calipers.

Let's cover the basics on bleeding brakes. To pressure bleed using brake pedal you pump the pedal several times, hold pedal down,while assistant opens 1 bleeder, bleed air/fluid then close bleeder and release pedal. Then repeat. Or style 2, open 1 bleeder, press pedal down slowly to floor, hold pedal on floor while assistant closes bleeder, repeat until straight fluid. If at any point you release pedal with bleeder open then air sucks back into system. To bench bleed master cylinder I use a fitting in each port with a clear tube going back into master cylinder and slowly work master cylinder until clear fluid with no bubbles. If you are doing all this and still getting air then you have something in the system sucking air when you release the pedal. Most likely in the components you've replaced since it worked fine before you opened the system up. I strongly recommend you re bench bleed the master, as you need to remove all air there before working rest of,system.

Yes, followed these steps to a "T".

The only issue I saw when bench bleeding the MC was how to not suck the air back into the MC when releasing the pressure. I would compress the cylinder, fluid/bubbles would come out, I would depress it, and fluid/bubbles would go right back into the MC. So I pinched the line shut when depressing, but this didn't seem to decrease the amount of bubbles coming out of the MC.

It's possible the MC is messed up, but it seems very coincidental since it worked fine before the calipers and lines. Unless I somehow over-extended it or something like mentioned above.

[ZYouL8R]

On more thing to bring up: I gravity bled for the longest time, but now am using the Motive Power Bleeder, which if you're not familiar with it, connects to the MC reservoir and uses pressure to bleed. The instructions say not to use more than 20psi due to the possibility of damaging components, and I've never used more than 15psi, but is it possible this thing could have damaged the seals? Grasping at straws here.

[shumpertdavid]

Tough to say without being there in person, the air should not have come from the master originally unless you either let it run out of fluid while changing everything over, or let it get low while bleeding it. I clamp the master in a vice by a mounting ear so its level, I have an assortment of plastic nipples for bleeding master cylinders that I've collected over the years from replacing them. I hand tighten the fitting in the master and then just snug it so not to distort it. I connect vinyl tubing to the nipples and run it into the master do they stay submerged. It will many slow pumps to get clear fluid, i dont get to concerned by a few small bubbles left. leave nipples and,lines connected, install master, remove nipples and install lines, crack both master lines, have someone slowly depress pedal to floor close both lines, release pedal, repeat unfilled clear fluid no bubbles. Usually only takes 1 to 3 times to get clear, then work the caliper bleeds. Gravity bleeding,after doing the master is usually easiest,way to get majority of air,clear of line. Sending from my phone, excuse typos.

[shumpertdavid]

If using a pressure bleeder you shouldn't get air since it is forcing fluid through the system, at some point it should force clear air free fluid in theory. Does it have abs? If it does if you get major air and it gets into age unit if can be difficult to get out without special equipment/procedures.