Best modular shop in DFW area?

[Darren M]

wth?

By the way...I have had my car for 8 years and been road racing for 5 years. I do all of my own suspension work, but mostly a part swapper. Not one for cracking engines on my own.

Road racing or HPDE/OT? There's a BIG difference. I've had mine for 10 and AX/HPDE for at least 8 of those years. So what? (Not much lately though.... a few Lemons races here and there.)


Also, you're damn lucky, the typical newbie comes in here and gets plastered by the residents to post tits or GTFO..... read the forums some, you'll see what I mean.

[jnobles06]

Not true at all. In most cases we have gained more power using e85 over c16! Water/meth injection is relative to nitrous in that it will only last so long. You will run out of the mixture quick.

e85 is a great alternative fuel that makes a huge difference in power, efficency, helps with controlling the engine temps in that is runs much cooler then gas, much cheaper then all other fuels, etc shall i continue? Yes, if you have a solid shortblock, a nicely setup air to air intercooled centri will work great on a road course car. The biggest problem i have seen, is guys trying to push a cast piston, powdered rod motor to over 400 rwhp and running the dog shit out of it at a track. A couple hundred bucks in a nice set of rods, pistons, rings and bearings will go a looong way. It is highly recommended to run a nicely size oil cooler especially if you are running a non self contained head unit such as a vortech. Keep in mind that with either a self contained or not, change your oil in both the engine and head unit regularly! This cannot be emphasized enough!

It is not an easy task to make 400 rwhp from a n/a mod motor and still be running pump gas. A properly setup car with a centri will do great.

For the non believers, do a quick search and you will find plenty of guys running similar setups to what i just mentioned with great success.

i know all about e85 and that is why i compared it to water/ methanol. i found that e85 might make a little more power than water/ methanol injection but it costs quite a bit more for just a few more horsepower. e85 conversion = $1k+ v.s. water/ methanol = $400-500

and run out like nitrous? please. by that logic gasoline and e85 would run out like nitrous. a gallon of water/ meth lasts a whole tank of gas and it can be bought anywhere for around 5 a gallon not to mention that you can run a bigger tank. plus you still keep your driving range because you actually use less fuel with water/ meth v.s. the 25% volume increase from e85.

did you even read the article that i posted? it compares pump gas, pump gas with water/ meth, and e85 on the same
vehicle.

Utilizing similar boost pressures as those for methanol injection, we now started to change fuel and timing parameters to best match the high-octane character of the E85. Surprisingly, additional ignition timing over that used for methanol injection did not heavily impact torque and power output (Figure 1, lower panels).

As was discussed in detail in the earlier article, we utilized more aggressive boost, timing and fuel strategies to take advantage of the added octane and heat reduction offered by the water and methanol injection system. These differences produced reliable power with realized gains of 35 ft/lbs of wheel torque and 10 additional peak wheel horsepower (Figure 1). The focus of this article is E85.

E85 allowed our test Subaru to create a reliable, additional 55ft/lbs of torque and 18hp at the wheels when compared to pump fuel. Is E85 a value? If you value power, E85 is the deal of the century.

not saying water/ meth is superior when it come to making power, just saying it's pretty damn good when you look at the price of each and compare the benefits/ results. especially when you are only talking about making 400hp, as the op is.

[Blackpony]

i know all about e85 and that is why i compared it to water/ methanol. i found that e85 might make a little more power than water/ methanol injection but it costs quite a bit more for just a few more horsepower. e85 conversion = $1k+ v.s. water/ methanol = $400-500

and run out like nitrous? please. by that logic gasoline and e85 would run out like nitrous. a gallon of water/ meth lasts a whole tank of gas and it can be bought anywhere for around 5 a gallon not to mention that you can run a bigger tank. plus you still keep your driving range because you actually use less fuel with water/ meth v.s. the 25% volume increase from e85.

did you even read the article that i posted? it compares pump gas, pump gas with water/ meth, and e85 on the same
vehicle.

$1k?! we are not talking about huge hp numbers. He is in the 400 hp range. A set of 60# injectors along with a 255 pump a boost a pump will easily supply the e85 needed. That is less then $600 for new parts to make the conversion probably less then 300-400 if he shops around and is smart about it. Also keep in mind, that most sanctioning bodies do not allow meth injection. Another note, meth injection typically will not help with engine coolant temps, e85 will.




haha either, or a properly setup car will do fine.

[Blackpony]

[jnobles06]

$1k?! we are not talking about huge hp numbers. He is in the 400 hp range. A set of 60# injectors along with a 255 pump a boost a pump will easily supply the e85 needed. That is less then $600 for new parts to make the conversion probably less then 300-400 if he shops around and is smart about it. Also keep in mind, that most sanctioning bodies do not allow meth injection. Another note, meth injection typically will not help with engine coolant temps, e85 will.




haha either, or a properly setup car will do fine.

i got my methanol setup for $200 (corral classifieds FTW). plus i forgot he was return style. lol.

[Blackpony]

i got my methanol setup for $200 (corral classifieds FTW). plus i forgot he was return style. lol.

Yup that is the key with e85. It's almost manditory that you have a return system. We did a procharger install on an 11 v-6. With just 8 lbs on 93 octane, 118 shop temps car made 436 hp to the ground!! We are in the process of converting it to e85, and upping the boost, but at the moment no company offers fuel rail for the v6 cars. So we are going to build our own rails and entire fuel system so it will have an aeromotive a1000 pump, and return system. Last time me and the customer spoke he is hoping for 600 rwhp.. we shall see if he sticks with the increase in boost or not.. Car should make 520 ish easily on e85 and some better conditions.. haha 118 degrees does nothing good for a boosted car..

[Andy@PrimeTuning]

did you even read the article that i posted? it compares pump gas, pump gas with water/ meth, and e85 on the same
vehicle.

The article stated nothing of INCREASING the boost. As you typically do with E85 in the car.

Also the Meth Kit has many failure points. To where if you tune aggressively for the meth it can go bad quick if something fails.

[aggie97]

Tried anything boosted with E85? Just curious.

availability near most of the race tracks is ZERO. Considering you can go through 30 to 50 gallons in a weekend, it makes it a pain to bring with you.

As for Meth injection, that's fine to try and stop detonation...but the HEAT is what is going to kill the cooling system. Seriously, once you step up over a stock mustang power level, heat becomes a major factor in killing parts while on track. 9 seconds at the drag strip is nothing compared to 30 minutes at full tilt. Even highway racing is peanuts.

Throwing boost into the picture or putting intercoolers in the path of the radiator takes CAREFUL planning to make things stay cool and last. Personally, I'd love to see some Temp data on the casing of a centri on a road racing/open track car. I bet you cook bearings like sausage for fat people at IHOP.

How big is the average Meth injection tank? Can it last 20 to 30 minutes under full throttle? Now you got to fill that after every run and hope it doesn't fail.

When open tracking or road racing, KEEP IT SIMPLE. 4V's already go into limp mode around 220 degree water temp. Build for simplicity and longevity and don't listen to some shop so willing to help you spend money when they OBVIOUSLY have no clue what they are talking about. Consider the weight of all that S/C gear on the nose of the car as well.

Stay N/A....you will love it!

[aggie97]

I am looknig to either go with a rebuild or install a supercharger on my 1997 Cobra. Looking for about 400rwhp and not confident in a shop up here in OKC. Any recommendations based on actual customer satisfaction for the DFW area?

Back to your original question, here is what I would recommend.

-Stroker shortblock to take advantage of increasing Compression ratio to 11:1
-Ported heads, Custom N/A cams and full Longtube exhaust
-switch to GT style water neck and oil filter housing to use external oil cooler.
-Tune it to spin to 7500rpm.
-Get a light weight clutch setup, spec sells a nice 10.5" that weighs nothing, but sacrifices city driving.
-Consider a trans upgrade away from the T45...once you get some power, you are going to break that sucker.
-Radiator upgrades and ducting
-Brake upgrade.
-suspension mods..suggest Maximum Motorsports.
-if it's a track only toy, lose the a/c and get the weight off the nose of the car.

I think I know who this is.....I recognize the screen name from other boards....KEEP IT SIMPLE!

[FRANCISCO308]

Yup that is the key with e85. It's almost manditory that you have a return system. We did a procharger install on an 11 v-6. With just 8 lbs on 93 octane, 118 shop temps car made 436 hp to the ground!! We are in the process of converting it to e85, and upping the boost, but at the moment no company offers fuel rail for the v6 cars. So we are going to build our own rails and entire fuel system so it will have an aeromotive a1000 pump, and return system. Last time me and the customer spoke he is hoping for 600 rwhp.. we shall see if he sticks with the increase in boost or not.. Car should make 520 ish easily on e85 and some better conditions.. haha 118 degrees does nothing good for a boosted car..

Good luck with that A1000 pump. Those things are junk.

[SKMCOBRA]

Back to your original question, here is what I would recommend.

-Stroker shortblock to take advantage of increasing Compression ratio to 11:1
-Ported heads, Custom N/A cams and full Longtube exhaust
-switch to GT style water neck and oil filter housing to use external oil cooler.
-Tune it to spin to 7500rpm.
-Get a light weight clutch setup, spec sells a nice 10.5" that weighs nothing, but sacrifices city driving.
-Consider a trans upgrade away from the T45...once you get some power, you are going to break that sucker.
-Radiator upgrades and ducting
-Brake upgrade.
-suspension mods..suggest Maximum Motorsports.
-if it's a track only toy, lose the a/c and get the weight off the nose of the car.

I think I know who this is.....I recognize the screen name from other boards....KEEP IT SIMPLE!

I already have LT's and complete o/r exhaust dumping just past the rear axle. Much of my suspension is MM and my set up came from their advice. I also have modified breaks and run Motul fluid, but would like a nice two piece rotor when cash allows. Wanting to keep the car somewhat comfortably streetable, thus why I haven't made some of the mod recommendations you mention. It is not a track dedicated car...at least not right now.

[SKMCOBRA]

Shortblock has NOTHING to do with it. Unless you get the motor and all the heat exchangers cool with seriously upgraded cooling, they all start shutting down about 3/4 through the session. They heat soak and start popping head gaskets when the driver doesn't back out of the pinging. Only boosted cars I have seen last are SOME subaru's and the Uber BMW's and Merc's.

Putting an intercooler in front of the radiator on a centri or turbo car just makes the problem worse.

Stay N/A, build for RPM and get the car light. No need for boost.

The intercooler in front of the radiator has been my biggest concern from what I have read on corner-carvers. I would definately box in the radiator if I went that route.

[jnobles06]

The article stated nothing of INCREASING the boost. As you typically do with E85 in the car.

Also the Meth Kit has many failure points. To where if you tune aggressively for the meth it can go bad quick if something fails.

shut it newb. reading > you

and do you not tune aggressively for E85? its a given when building a high performance car shit will break plus the have fail safes like pressure safety switches.

Utilizing similar boost pressures as those for methanol injection, we now started to change fuel and timing parameters to best match the high-octane character of the E85. Surprisingly, additional ignition timing over that used for methanol injection did not heavily impact torque and power output (Figure 1, lower panels). However, the timing was higher than that used for pump fuel as we ran much higher boost (22 compared to 19 PSI), which normally requires a substantial drop in ignition timing.

[jnobles06]

availability near most of the race tracks is ZERO. Considering you can go through 30 to 50 gallons in a weekend, it makes it a pain to bring with you.

As for Meth injection, that's fine to try and stop detonation...but the HEAT is what is going to kill the cooling system. Seriously, once you step up over a stock mustang power level, heat becomes a major factor in killing parts while on track. 9 seconds at the drag strip is nothing compared to 30 minutes at full tilt. Even highway racing is peanuts.

Throwing boost into the picture or putting intercoolers in the path of the radiator takes CAREFUL planning to make things stay cool and last. Personally, I'd love to see some Temp data on the casing of a centri on a road racing/open track car. I bet you cook bearings like sausage for fat people at IHOP.




How big is the average Meth injection tank? Can it last 20 to 30 minutes under full throttle? Now you got to fill that after every run and hope it doesn't fail.

When open tracking or road racing, KEEP IT SIMPLE. 4V's already go into limp mode around 220 degree water temp. Build for simplicity and longevity and don't listen to some shop so willing to help you spend money when they OBVIOUSLY have no clue what they are talking about. Consider the weight of all that S/C gear on the nose of the car as well.

Stay N/A....you will love it!

they make trunk mount kits and you can make the res as large as you want. i want to know who said anything about this guy racing full throttle for 30min? plus one of the main benefits of water/ meth and e85 is cooler combustion chamber temps.


and all the parts you listed are going to run about 15k. i had every MM suspension part on my old 2k gt and it was about 8-9k worth. not to mention 2k for a tranny/ clutch, and 5k for the built motor.

[Andy@PrimeTuning]

Haha - Newb

I'm not the guy arguing that meth injection is better on a mustang than e85.

I don't need to read an article about a Subaru engine with a small turbo making small horsepower numbers to convince me that e85 is better than methanol injection.

I base my opinion from hands on experience