LS-coupe cooling saga continues :(

[Lason]

Is there a gap between the radiator and condensor? I seem to remember the air dam under the 3rd gen camaros I had forced air in between the radiator and condensor. Maybe the radiator isnt able to get any cooler air when the A/C is running?

Just throwing ideas out there, this one stumps me.

[dville_gt]

Is there a gap between the radiator and condensor? I seem to remember the air dam under the 3rd gen camaros I had forced air in between the radiator and condensor. Maybe the radiator isnt able to get any cooler air when the A/C is running?

Just throwing ideas out there, this one stumps me.

About 1/2 inch or so of a gap. But the way everything sits in the mustang thats about all you can get from the condenser.

Found this post (which makes sense in my little mind and seems to be backed up by Griffin radiators)

The condenser should be as close as possible to the radiator. If it's spaced too far away, the air flow becomes turbulent between the two and the efficiency of the radiator is reduced. Warm air flowing cleanly through the radiator removes more heat than cooler air that's turbulent. If you're overheating you don't have enough radiator or somethng else is wrong.

[dville_gt]

The air coming thru the AC coil will be set up or straightened to an extent when flowing past the fins and tubes of the AC coil. Because the fins and/or tubes of the radiator do not match exactly the same spacing and line up correctly with the AC coil, it is advised to design a space in between the AC coil and the radiator to let the air move in semi straight/deflected lines, but not eddy or build unorganised pressure to any extent behind the AC coil. If this happens, the air that was coming thru the AC coil that was all formed and mostly straightline becomes disarrayed, (the more space the more eddys and unorganised it gets...kinda like walking away from a floor fan....close up its very forcefull and organised...but the further you get from it it becomes unnoticeable and not moving due to eddys and air friction....same principle here) and bogged down and doesn't enter the radiator in effective straight line motion and creates a dead zone of trapped air. This produces two problems. One is that it traps conducted heat from the AC coil in front and diminished the airflow CFMs greatly.

By having the coil no more than 1/2 to 1/4 inches, the incoming air will permeate the radiator in a relatively organised and straight line matter and result in more CFM. The heat conduction from the AC coil (when in turned on) WILL take place in ALL systems. Your radiator and cooling system has to have the capacity to take on what the industry design standard is of around 15 degrees higher ambient temperatures going into the radiator. This is why if you have overheating problems in any car, the turning off of the air conditioning helps enormously to help cooler air get to the radiator.

This is also why Griffin (and the OEM boys install larger radiators for AC cars) recommends most applications without air to use their 1 inch tubed radiator and with air their 1.25 incher, for increase in cooling capacity expecting the incoming air to be higher. Their combo unit by the way is spaced 3/8 to 1/2 inches depending on design from the factory if that's any help.

this goes into further detail

[dville_gt]

here is my a/c condenser to radiator spacing

[Lason]

Yeah that makes sense in my head too, too far away and your essentially not allowing the fans to pull across the condenser. But I remember noticing that the air damn on one of my camaros years ago pointed up in between the two but it must have just been a coincidence.

Man you have replaced everything else, I would try that water pump and see where that gets you. Only other think I could thing to try is replacing that air valve you put in with another radiator cap and use that to fill the system with the front end jacked up. But Im just grasping at straws like I said.

remote cap like this one....

[dville_gt]

Yeah that makes sense in my head too, too far away and your essentially not allowing the fans to pull across the condenser. But I remember noticing that the air damn on one of my camaros years ago pointed up in between the two but it must have just been a coincidence.

Man you have replaced everything else, I would try that water pump and see where that gets you. Only other think I could thing to try is replacing that air valve you put in with another radiator cap and use that to fill the system with the front end jacked up. But Im just grasping at straws like I said.

remote cap like this one....

Ya, but I essentially do fill it through there already. My normal fill procedure (last night we vacuum filled it so it was a bit of a different gig), is to fill through the upper radiator hose straight into the motor (to make damn sure there is coolant on the inside of the thermostat. I then put the radiator hose back onto the radiator and pull the bleed plug. Then I fill through the radiator, then I run the car with the cap off until water starts flowing from the bleeder, then I put top off the radiator and put the cap on. Once it cools off I pull the bleeder and top off that upper hose. Seems like I am already accomplishing what that would do with my current setup.

[Chas_svo]

Dville_gt, I have a digital pyrometer if you want to borrow to help u diagnose. I'm in Haslet, so it's a bit of a drive, but I bet it will help u see what is hot and where.

Charles

[dville_gt]

Dville_gt, I have a digital pyrometer if you want to borrow to help u diagnose. I'm in Haslet, so it's a bit of a drive, but I bet it will help u see what is hot and where.

Charles

I have an IR thermometer. Not 100% sure if that is different then what you are talking about. Haven't really learned much of anything with IR though, everything seems to be correct, just hot.

[Txstang1]

I can see how most would think this sounds normal, but the numbers I just posted were @ 88* ambient, not 105-110*. The car with a big double pass radiator and fans on should be able to at least maintain under 220 in 88 degree air at night (after a fairly modest drive around the neighborhood), right?

I wouldn't neccisarly say that. With the Ac on, running around at night, I'm still seeing 215-220ish. I drove it around the other day when it was overcast without the ac on just to see what it runs in this weather without it, and I stayed right at 195-200.

Me personally, I just installed the electric fan, big giant ass aluminum radiator and 130a alt to run everything, all with the hopes of being able to drive in 100 plus degree weather with Ac and not overheat and I'm cool with the results.

I guess I think you're asking for too much in this weather.

[Txstang1]

radiator dimensions are 28x19x3 double pass with 2x1" cores.

Mine is close, 29x19x3, only difference is that I have two 1 1/4 in rows in mine.

[dville_gt]

I wouldn't neccisarly say that. With the Ac on, running around at night, I'm still seeing 215-220ish. I drove it around the other day when it was overcast without the ac on just to see what it runs in this weather without it, and I stayed right at 195-200.

Me personally, I just installed the electric fan, big giant ass aluminum radiator and 130a alt to run everything, all with the hopes of being able to drive in 100 plus degree weather with Ac and not overheat and I'm cool with the results.

I guess I think you're asking for too much in this weather.

maybe you are right, mine stayed right at 199* the entire drive home (which was literally stopping at 8-10 stop lights in a row, one after the other), but that was a/c off and it was only 86-90* per my iat thermistor mounted in the front bumper of the car (very accurate readings, no heat soak).

But with a/c on I really can't trust it, it can and will go over 230* per my oem ect sensor.

[Txstang1]

But with a/c on I really can't trust it, it can and will go over 230* per my oem ect sensor.

Yea, I start getting over 220 and I start freaking too. Only happened once though and it was 107 and I left the car idling with the ac on.

I dont see the small difference in our radiators making that much of a difference in cooling but who knows, maybe that one extra inch or the wider rows does make that difference. I also have a 98 mark 8 fan, which from what I researched, pretty much moves more air than any other fan.

[dville_gt]

Yea, I start getting over 220 and I start freaking too. Only happened once though and it was 107 and I left the car idling with the ac on.

I dont see the small difference in our radiators making that much of a difference in cooling but who knows, maybe that one extra inch or the wider rows does make that difference. I also have a 98 mark 8 fan, which from what I researched, pretty much moves more air than any other fan.

Per this thread:

http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=350404

LS1 FAN SHROUD
1 fan turned on - 4800 cfm
2 fans on - 9500cfm

LT1 FAN SHROUD
1 fan turned on - 5000 cfm
2 fans on - 8700 cfm

Dodge Fan (both fans are always on - 2 speed)
Slow speed - 3700 cfm
High Speed 9000 cfm

Ford Taurus (1 fan two speed)
Slow speed - 2800 CFM
High speed - 5600 CFM

Not sure on the accuracy, but I do know the LT1 fans I have move some air for sure.

[Txstang1]

Per this thread:

http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=350404

Not sure on the accuracy, but I do know the LT1 fans I have move some air for sure.

damn, those do move some air. must sound like a hurricane under the hood.

well you got me.

[dville_gt]

damn, those do move some air. must sound like a hurricane under the hood.

well you got me.

It'll suck a golf ball through...err, wrong saying, it will suck a piece of paper clean into the condenser and not let go.