Timing. Which way to go?

[SMEGMA STENCH]

The car is a mostly stock 94 GT. This is probably a dumb question to many of yall, but I never did much work when it comes to timing. I'll probly get called a dumbass but eh, I don't really care. So here goes.

I would like to "advance" my timing by 4 degrees. I've done the research and that is how far its safe to advance the timing in these cars, before you have to run 93 octane. From the factory, the timing is supposed to be set at 10 degrees before top dead center. So when I'm "advancing" the timing by 4 degrees, do I want to set it to the 14 mark on the balancer, or do I want to set it to the 6 mark on the balancer? I guess its the word "advance" that's throwing me off, on this one.

Cause if you think about it, 10 degrees "Before Top Dead Center" is like 10 degrees retarded timing... right? So if I wanted to "advance" the timing by 4 degrees to gain the free horsepower, then I would "advance" it to the little 6th notch on the balancer. Which would put me at only 6 degrees before top dead center, instead of 10. Right?

[Vertnut]

The car is a mostly stock 94 GT. This is probably a dumb question to many of yall, but I never did much work when it comes to timing. I'll probly get called a dumbass but eh, I don't really care. So here goes.

I would like to "advance" my timing by 4 degrees. I've done the research and that is how far its safe to advance the timing in these cars, before you have to run 93 octane. From the factory, the timing is supposed to be set at 10 degrees before top dead center. So when I'm "advancing" the timing by 4 degrees, do I want to set it to the 14 mark on the balancer, or do I want to set it to the 6 mark on the balancer? I guess its the word "advance" that's throwing me off, on this one.

Cause if you think about it, 10 degrees "Before Top Dead Center" is like 10 degrees retarded timing... right? So if I wanted to "advance" the timing by 4 degrees to gain the free horsepower, then I would "advance" it to the little 6th notch on the balancer. Which would put me at only 6 degrees before top dead center, instead of 10. Right?

You might want to move this thread to another forum, but our cars ('94-"95) are a little more tempermental than the Fox cars, when it comes to "adjusting" or modding the motors. Supposedly, Ford sets the cars @ 10 deg. BTDC. They could be 6 or 8, too. Be sure an pull the spout connector before setting the timing, or the computer will compensate as soon as you start the car. I'd try 12 deg BTDC first. I run mine at 14 deg BTDC, but I have aluminum heads and run 93 octane. Remember that summer is coming, and the heat can affect how much timing you can put into them. Just experiment with it and find the optimum setting.

[The King]

I would like to "advance" Cause if you think about it, 10 degrees "Before Top Dead Center" is like 10 degrees retarded timing... right? So if I wanted to "advance" the timing by 4 degrees to gain the free horsepower, then I would "advance" it to the little 6th notch on the balancer. Which would put me at only 6 degrees before top dead center, instead of 10. Right?

10 degrees advanced is not like 10 degrees retarded no matter how you think about it. Advanced timing means the spark and fuel ignition occur while the pistons are still on the upward stroke. This compresses the "exploding" fuel vapors which results in more force being exerted on the downstroke than would be the case at TDC, and hence more power being generated.

[Trick Pony]

If stock is 10' BTDC, then setting it to 14' BTDC would be advancing it by 4'. I think you will get some pinging if you try to run it on 87 like that in the summer.

[SMEGMA STENCH]

You might want to move this thread to another forum, but our cars ('94-"95) are a little more tempermental than the Fox cars, when it comes to "adjusting" or modding the motors. Supposedly, Ford sets the cars @ 10 deg. BTDC. They could be 6 or 8, too. Be sure an pull the spout connector before setting the timing, or the computer will compensate as soon as you start the car. I'd try 12 deg BTDC first. I run mine at 14 deg BTDC, but I have aluminum heads and run 93 octane. Remember that summer is coming, and the heat can affect how much timing you can put into them. Just experiment with it and find the optimum setting.

Thanks for all the help everyone.

But where exactly is the "spout" connector? I've never heard of it, I'm afraid. So you just plug it back in once you're done setting the timing? What keeps the computer from auto-adjusting as soon as you plug it back in? Seeing as how the car is still going to be running when you do all this.

[Vertnut]

Thanks for all the help everyone.

But where exactly is the "spout" connector? I've never heard of it, I'm afraid. So you just plug it back in once you're done setting the timing? What keeps the computer from auto-adjusting as soon as you plug it back in? Seeing as how the car is still going to be running when you do all this.

If you've got a '94, I think you can look on the passenger side fender well where the wires are. There's a gray 1" square plastic thingy that plugs into a socket (Those wires should lead to the dizzy). With the car off, pull it out of the socket. Start the car, and slowly turn the dizzy. When you've hit the mark you want. Replace the spout connector.

[SMEGMA STENCH]

Hmm. I've already timed the car once without doing this lol. Did I screw anything up? Are my adjustments going to be skewed now? I mean after all, the dizzy is rotated now, and then computer must have compensated. So that should have thrown the whole thing off, right? Now I probly have to set it to something like 4 before top dead center just to get it to be right.

Hopefully I'm wrong about this.

[Vertnut]

Hmm. I've already timed the car once without doing this lol. Did I screw anything up? Are my adjustments going to be skewed now? I mean after all, the dizzy is rotated now, and then computer must have compensated. So that should have thrown the whole thing off, right? Now I probly have to set it to something like 4 before top dead center just to get it to be right.

Hopefully I'm wrong about this.

Pull the spout conn. and just take it back to the factory setting 10 BTDC). Start from there, and try 12-14. 4deg. is not much of a turn.

[turbostang]

I would like to "advance" my timing by 4 degrees. I've done the research and that is how far its safe to advance the timing in these cars, before you have to run 93 octane. From the factory, the timing is supposed to be set at 10 degrees before top dead center. So when I'm "advancing" the timing by 4 degrees, do I want to set it to the 14 mark on the balancer, or do I want to set it to the 6 mark on the balancer? I guess its the word "advance" that's throwing me off, on this one.

Cause if you think about it, 10 degrees "Before Top Dead Center" is like 10 degrees retarded timing... right? So if I wanted to "advance" the timing by 4 degrees to gain the free horsepower, then I would "advance" it to the little 6th notch on the balancer. Which would put me at only 6 degrees before top dead center, instead of 10. Right?

First. You can't consider 'research' as a blanket statement that covers all cars. As mentioned above, weather, fuel quality, octane and the overall condition of the engine affects how much timing you can safely get away with before pre-ignition/pinging etc.

Standing in front of the car - the engine rotates CW. When the 0 mark on the balancer is approacing, you see the other numbers prior like 2,4,6,8,10 (maybe even 1-30 etc.) Since it's BEFORE it gets to the 0, it's BTDC, AKA 'advanced'. Keep in mind, the distributor rotates CCW so, advancing the timing is actually turning the distributor body CW.

Hmm. I've already timed the car once without doing this lol. Did I screw anything up? Are my adjustments going to be skewed now? I mean after all, the dizzy is rotated now, and then computer must have compensated. So that should have thrown the whole thing off, right? Now I probly have to set it to something like 4 before top dead center just to get it to be right.

Hopefully I'm wrong about this.

Yes, your timing readings will NOT be accurate because of the computers intervention. All of it's timing tables are adjusted based off of the factory's 10* base.

[SMEGMA STENCH]

Yes, your timing readings will NOT be accurate because of the computers intervention. All of it's timing tables are adjusted based off of the factory's 10* base.

Ok thanks for all the info. But do you think I can just use Vernut's way to get everything back to the way its supposed to be? I have to be able to know that I'm starting from the factory setting, which is 10 degrees advanced. If not, there is no telling what people before me have done with it. So I have to get it all back to a baseline that I know where I'm working from. Is there a way to just reset it all back to factory?

[turbostang]

If you've got a '94, I think you can look on the passenger side fender well where the wires are. There's a gray 1" square plastic thingy that plugs into a socket (Those wires should lead to the dizzy). With the car off, pull it out of the socket. Start the car, and slowly turn the dizzy. When you've hit the mark you want. Replace the spout connector.

Ok thanks for all the info. But do you think I can just use Vernut's way to get everything back to the way its supposed to be? I have to be able to know that I'm starting from the factory setting, which is 10 degrees advanced. If not, there is no telling what people before me have done with it. So I have to get it all back to a baseline that I know where I'm working from. Is there a way to just reset it all back to factory?

It doesn't matter if you turn it back to stock or not, youre not doing anything any different if you turn it to 10* and then advance it to 14*, or 12* or whatever..

You still have to put a light on it, disconnect the spout and set it.

[SMEGMA STENCH]

Ok so once I disconnect the spout and set it to 10 degrees BTDC, then reconnect the spout, the computer will properly think its at 10 BTDC? Surely it remembers where it last detected it...

[turbostang]

Ok so once I disconnect the spout and set it to 10 degrees BTDC, then reconnect the spout, the computer will properly think its at 10 BTDC? Surely it remembers where it last detected it...

Yes and no. The computer is pre-programmer to set the timing to a certain amount based on load, barometric pressure, airflow etc. It relies on your setting it at 10* to calculate those amounts. If you set it at 12*, it knows no different, it still thinks it's 10*...but in reality you've added 2* across the board. It doesn't "remember" anything.

[SMEGMA STENCH]

So once the spout detector is out, I can simply set the timing with the distributor to whatever the hell I want it to be, and it will be that? So say I wanted to try 12 degrees. As long as the spout is out, the computer is not going to be able to screw up my new 12 degree setting? I'm actually going to get 12 BTDC, without the computer F'ing up my adjustments? Once I put the spout back in, I mean. This is all a little confusing when you can't talk to someone in person heh