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BBK upgrade and a shimmy

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  • BBK upgrade and a shimmy

    I guess I've always had a very slight off/on steering shimmy, but it was so slight and off/on I never worried about it and it didn't bother me. I've recently upgraded to a Saleen BBK and it has gotten worse, much worse, about 1/4' shimmy now. I've had the front tires rebalanced twice now. They are the same front tires and rims before/after the upgrade. The rotors/calipers are new so I don't see how they could be the problem, so I assumed it was the balance.

    Before the 1st rebalance (after the BBK install) I got the shimmy from about 40-50 mph, then smoothed out for the most part. I had the fronts rebalanced and got it at 50-60 mph, then mostly smoothed out. I just had them rebalanced again using the Road Force system and it's smooth as glass (smoother than both the other rebalances) up to about 58 mph, then smooths a little (shimmies worse than other rebalance though). When they did the Road Force they did say they had to rotate one tire on the rim 90 degrees and the other they had to rotate 180 degrees.

    The BBK upgraded the rotors to 14" slotted rotors and the calipers are 4 piston StopTech ST-40's. There's about 5 Ibs more weight at each front corner now, which I assumed was making the shimmy more noticeable. I also upgraded the rears to the stock size Roush slotted rotors (both Roush and Saleen use the same ST-40 calipers, but the Roush kit uses 2 piece rotors, the Roush rears match both) that use the stock calipers. I put Hawk HPS pads out back with the new rear rotors. Everything installed fairly smooth, except for compressing those rear caliper pistons was a PITA. I had to rent a caliper tool from Autozone for those and it was still a bear getting those rotated/compressed.



    The front tires are Nitto 555's and the rims are American Racing Razors 20x9. I don't notice any play in my steering in the car so I assume the tie rod ends are ok, but I haven't actually gotten under the car and had someone move the steering wheel to check them visually. The car is lowered with Steeda Sport springs and I have the Steeda upper strut mounts to adj. camber. I do notice a slight shimmy when braking, if I barely put my foot on the brake, but once I apply more pressure it stops.

    Do you still think it's the tires/balance or something else...?
    Last edited by Chritaka; 05-16-2011, 12:30 PM.
    Whippled '06 by Gearheads - 474rwhp 450rwtq @ 10psi and a few other Borla/Steeda/BMR/CHE/Tokico mods...

    Gearheads Dyno Video


  • #2
    Do you feel this in the seat, gearshift, or steering wheel?

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    • #3
      steering wheel
      Whippled '06 by Gearheads - 474rwhp 450rwtq @ 10psi and a few other Borla/Steeda/BMR/CHE/Tokico mods...

      Gearheads Dyno Video

      Comment


      • #4
        If it is on the nice Silver Bullet in your sig, 2 things come to mind. If you do not have wheel weights on the outside of the rims and they are only stuck on the inside you may have a dynamic imbalance. The other possible problem is wheel run-out.

        When we went to the 55MPH just a few short years ago, peps came out of the wood work to get their tires computer balanced!

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        • #5
          The weights are only on the inside. The Hunter Road Force balance should have found any dynamic wheel imbalance or runout issues from my understanding. Hence, the rotation of one tire 90 degrees and the other 180 degrees...?

          Another thing to mention, there are no rotor retaining clips that often cause issues like these. I slid the old rotors right off and the new ones right on, both front and rear. I'm guessing Discount Tire removed these when I first put on the new wheels a few years ago?
          Whippled '06 by Gearheads - 474rwhp 450rwtq @ 10psi and a few other Borla/Steeda/BMR/CHE/Tokico mods...

          Gearheads Dyno Video

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          • #6
            bearings?

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            • #7
              We called those OHSA clips. They did nothing but hold the drums and now rotors on while running down the assembly line (a 10 Lb. rotor falling from 3 feet on one's toe smarts).

              You may still have a balance problem! Some wheel/tire combos will not balance right without weights on the inside and outside. I understand "tire matching" and how it works but IIUC there is a degree of balance they can do with that machine. In most cases it works great but sometimes it does not. Yours might be the case.

              Have you called them back yet?

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              • #8
                I ordered some new 275/40/20 Nitto Invos for the rear that will be in tomorrow, so I'll talk to them about it then. My Nitto NT05s are roasted...got 12k out of them... heh I probably won't be able to have enough time for them to try the balance again until the weekend.

                Another thing I thought about is when I pulled off the old rotors there was a bit of grease slathered on the hub between it and the rotor. I left it on there not thinking it would be an issue, but I don't remember ever seeing that done before... I'm wondering if that's causing the issue, something got stuck in the grease or on the back of the rotor to cause them to be a little off kilter, etc. I think I'm going to pull the front calipers and rotors off, reclean everything and remove the grease, then reseat it all this weekend... Maybe I'll get lucky.

                Even with the shimmy problem, I do have to say this brake setup is night and day difference from the stock stuff. I did upgrade the lines to SS brake lines front/rear and flushed with about 1.5 liters of Super Blue too, so with everything it is a drastic difference in braking. The Saleen pads that came preloaded in the ST-40s dust like a SoB though...I may just go a head and throw in some Hawk HPS pads in them before too long.
                Last edited by Chritaka; 05-17-2011, 01:16 PM.
                Whippled '06 by Gearheads - 474rwhp 450rwtq @ 10psi and a few other Borla/Steeda/BMR/CHE/Tokico mods...

                Gearheads Dyno Video

                Comment


                • #9
                  I think I may have found the answer... It looks like there's a 2.3mm hub difference between the S197 hub and Razors. Apparently a hub centric ring of 72.62/70.30 might do the trick...

                  Part #'s I found:

                  HRM727030 (metal)
                  HR727030 (plastic)
                  W727030 (?)

                  A few needle-in-the-haystack threads I found:

                  http://www.teamshelby.com/forums/ind...ze-for-razors/

                  http://forums.themustangsource.com/f...-rings-466607/

                  Looks like Jegs has the metal ones...
                  Whippled '06 by Gearheads - 474rwhp 450rwtq @ 10psi and a few other Borla/Steeda/BMR/CHE/Tokico mods...

                  Gearheads Dyno Video

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The hub rings did the trick, smooth as glass now... Though, I also pulled the calipers off and cleaned the rotors, removed the factory grease from between the hub and rotor, lightly sanded all mating surfaces completely smooth to remove burrs, paint chips, etc... Here's a few pics of the BBK installed. I also used the StopTech SS brake lines front and rear, which are Teflon lines and have a clear rubber coating over the SS braid.


                    Last edited by Chritaka; 05-23-2011, 09:59 AM.
                    Whippled '06 by Gearheads - 474rwhp 450rwtq @ 10psi and a few other Borla/Steeda/BMR/CHE/Tokico mods...

                    Gearheads Dyno Video

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Nice job looks good.

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