Another shooting. NY

[Forever_frost]

I'm giving an example of liability.

A cop SHOULD have more training, but I'll tell you it all boils down to money.

How much is a department willing to spend on targets, ammo, and range time?
How much is a department willing to spend on people to work that range?
How much is a department willing to spend to hire extra officers to work while the other officers train? Who is going to work the call load while these officers are off training?

Or you can read "how much more are taxpayers willing to spend" to accomplish these goals? There's a LOT more to the equation than just having an officer go train more. It's easy to say, but when you go looking at the fiscal aspects of it, you'll see the reason(s).

When I was in a foreign war, I'll tell you that I was guaranteed to have to use my weapon.

I know of MANY officers that worked an entire career and was NEVER involved in a shooting.

So, it all boils down to insurance. How much insurance is a department willing to spend of the tax monies on the off chance that something like this will happen? It's a calculated risk, and I'll bet that it's a risk the bean counters are willing to take to save that money.

It's also the reason that officers have qualified immunity.

If you get to take that weapon home, it should be your responsibility to practice with it if the department isn't willing to cover teh cost. Afterall, it's the professional thing to do.

And it's also the reason officers shouldn't have qualified immunity.

[Tannerm]

Why bother guys... Right or wrong he will not see the light.
He seems to think if a cop rips ass in a public place that same cop should be hung up by his toenails and told to say sorry to all who pass.
As far as the people who were shot accidentally. I can guaranty that the ofcrs will be put on admin leave, IAed, sent to training, disciplined (demotion days off), thats if NYPD doesn't want the headache and they'll fire em. THEN they will have 9 lawsuits to suffer through.

Edit: I rarely chime in on these but goodness the haterade is flowin in here!

[Danny46]

We're the people SHOT or injured by debris?

[Forever_frost]

We're the people SHOT or injured by debris?

3 were SHOT, 6 were injured by debris.

[Forever_frost]

Why bother guys... Right or wrong he will not see the light.
He seems to think if a cop rips ass in a public place that same cop should be hung up by his toenails and told to say sorry to all who pass.
As far as the people who were shot accidentally. I can guaranty that the ofcrs will be put on admin leave, IAed, sent to training, disciplined (demotion days off), thats if NYPD doesn't want the headache and they'll fire em. THEN they will have 9 lawsuits to suffer through.

Edit: I rarely chime in on these but goodness the haterade is flowin in here!

No, cops shot and injured 9 people. Those cops should be held responsible in a real way. Personal responsibility. If you're going to wear the badge, you are held to a higher standard.

And you're saying shooting innocent civilians is the same as a cop farting? Really? Wow, you and Matt with the analogies..

[ELVIS]

Sooooooo.... What's going on in here??

God bless.

[Tannerm]

No, cops shot and injured 9 people. Those cops should be held responsible in a real way. Personal responsibility. If you're going to wear the badge, you are held to a higher standard.

And you're saying shooting innocent civilians is the same as a cop farting? Really? Wow, you and Matt with the analogies..

Nah brah, just giving a crazy example. Kinda like ur doom n gloom FTP posts and ur responses to said threads. Farting, although offensive to many, is not like inadvertently shooting up debris while responding to an active shooter. In hindsight sure it coulda been done differently. But when ur charging a known gunman with one notch on his slide, ur objective it to end that threat. As I have read above, the dude swings his gun around toward the popo. The cops aren't gunna go "you know what, I'm gunna sit this one out and hope he just hits me in this old vest that I wear." no, imgunna make my round count. In this scenario I'm glad to hear only injuries were sustained. NONlife threatening. I think they did a good job of not killing anyone outside of there intended target. They were given a shit sandwich and choked it down.
Unfortunately they were not navy SEAL/force recon/beret/Frost and made all headshots with slow non double penetrating rounds.

As far as training on ur off time. Alot do. I do. But this is, in most cases, in the officers expense. Plus it's very difficult to simulate high stress shootIng on ur own at a range. Plus, most ranges won't let u holster draw. That erks me the wrong way. There are many factors u can manipulate in these threads on how better the blue coulda done. But unfortunately we are humans. We are held to a higher standard everyday. Everything we do is scrutinized under a microscope. Both by admin and media. Most admins now a days will not tolerate anything and will discipline after investigation. U have seen too many Eastwood movies that display the cops getting into shit and then told it was brushed under rug.

Ok I'm done. Going to work now. Y'all carry on and don't get too worked up that ur forehead vein blows!

[Tannerm]

Sooooooo.... What's going on in here??

God bless.

Lol ooooh u know. Typical frost vs big bad police! Or frost vs Matt. That's more entertaining.

[Snatch Napkin]

Watched the video several more times. The situational awareness of the cops sucked. Their plan to subdue the perp sucked. Their lack of firearm control sucked.

Those cops were not prepared for this situation.

This is not a jab at other officers.

[Tannerm]

On a side note, frost did u ever tackle that $50 paint job u were gunna do on ur bronco or whatever?

[Forever_frost]

I got the tailgate done and then forgot about it but it looks decent. It's been in the shop so much that I just literally forgot. I'll see about finishing up the job and taking some pictures. Thanks for the reminder Tannerm

[ceyko]

Marines only qualify once a year? Even REMFs in the Aaaaarmmy qualify once every 6 months.

Kind of sad there is not enough money to require hardcore weapons training for the everyday police officer - considering the amount of money out there. However, it does not surprise me and is one of the reasons I don't understand why some LEOs are all high and mighty about civilians carrying. (CHL or not) It's not like a lot of LEOs out there are all elite compared to the average Joe.

[Tannerm]

I got the tailgate done and then forgot about it but it looks decent. It's been in the shop so much that I just literally forgot. I'll see about finishing up the job and taking some pictures. Thanks for the reminder Tannerm

I want updates with pics. Wanna see how this rustoleum job ends up.

[Couver]

I'm giving an example of liability.

A cop SHOULD have more training, but I'll tell you it all boils down to money.

How much is a department willing to spend on targets, ammo, and range time?
How much is a department willing to spend on people to work that range?
How much is a department willing to spend to hire extra officers to work while the other officers train? Who is going to work the call load while these officers are off training?


It's also the reason that officers have qualified immunity.

I'm no expert by any means but I would wager all that would cost less then a few million forked over to a bystander hit by some cop going wild wild west.

[pr1042]

I'm no expert by any means but I would wager all that would cost less then a few million forked over to a bystander hit by some cop going wild wild west.

If NYPD went to the frost method of qualifying every 2 months, and assuming they shoot a 100 rd qualifier with duty ammo (9mm Speer gold dots for this example), you are looking at over 10 million in ammo costs alone for qualifying purposes. 50 bucks for 100 rounds x 6 qualifiers a year x 34,500 officers.

Officers with 5 years of service have a base pay of around 56k, roughly 27 an hour. Assuming each officer gets 1 hour of overtime for their qualifiers, add another 8.3 million to the bill.