Another shooting. NY

[kingjason]

Ok I watched the video and he was moving and turned to shoot at the police.

The point you might be missing is how many other people was he going to kill that day? The answer to that is no one knows. We are trained in a active shooter situation to neutralize the threat. Colorado was a big turning point in how police deal with active shooters. Had the police waited any longer and he happened to have popped one more person you guys would be screaming bloody murder that they were cowards and WTF where they waiting on. Just a bad situation right there boys.

[kingjason]

From the video, it was almost point blank range and teh guy was standing still. So this wasn't a hard shoot, it was a guy in one place at about 10 feet. Hell, they could have thrown their weapons at him and hit him. Hey Matt, any comment? Did you watch the video?

You are assuming he missed and it wasnt the guys further out. He may have hit his mark but others may have missed.

[Forever_frost]

Jason, he was 10 feet (ish) away and they somehow hit 9 people with their shots. He killed 1 person and was standing still. At that distance, you have to work to miss. Somehow they did. What I'm saying is these two need to be held accountable for the injuries THEY caused.

Do you not agree? Cops shot innocent people, they should be held accountable.

[kingjason]

Jason, he was 10 feet (ish) away and they somehow hit 9 people with their shots. He killed 1 person and was standing still. At that distance, you have to work to miss. Somehow they did. What I'm saying is these two need to be held accountable for the injuries THEY caused.

Do you not agree? Cops shot innocent people, they should be held accountable.

Do you want the police to rush into a situation or not? They did their jobs and you are wanting them linched or something? How was he standing still? He was rounding whatever that was in the road and swung around with pistol in hand. He was not exactly a big target either. Sure I will agree if you would like them to get some active shooter classes or something but damn Frost sometimes you have got to not be so harsh on people based on the way you may or may not have handled a situation. He didnt exactly go down fast either. I see a few different ways they could have handled that but there are also a few different ways that could have went.

That damn video was getting on my last nerve with the advertisement. Wow I can not believe the guy in back didnt shoot his partner.

[Forever_frost]

Do you want the police to rush into a situation or not? They did their jobs and you are wanting them linched or something? How was he standing still? He was rounding whatever that was in the road and swung around with pistol in hand. He was not exactly a big target either. Sure I will agree if you would like them to get some active shooter classes or something but damn Frost sometimes you have got to not be so harsh on people based on the way you may or may not have handled a situation. He didnt exactly go down fast either. I see a few different ways they could have handled that but there are also a few different ways that could have went.

That damn video was getting on my last nerve with the advertisement. Wow I can not believe the guy in back didnt shoot his partner.

No, not lynched. I want them held accountable, personally, for every single person they shot that was not the bad guy. If I open fire on someone and miss, then I'm going to be charged for every bullet and every person that was not my intended target. I want cops actually held to account for injuring innocent people. If that means part of their paychecks go to pay the hospital bills until the bills are paid off and they pay for a settlement (them, not the city) with those injured taht they swore to serve and protect, then so be it. If that means pulling their badges and putting them on desk work until they prove that in an active shooter situation, they're not going to put 9 people in the hospital, that works too.

Some personal responsibility for personal actions while wearing that badge is all I'm asking for and what every single story (well, almost) boils down to. No hiding behind it, no "perfect scenario" comments. Personal responsibility. Did you open fire one someone and hit someone else? Yes? Then here's what happens when you dump an entire magazine into an area and you hurt bystanders.

[03trubluGT]

The cops killed the bad guy.

Well SHIT!

I wasn't counting that since he SHOULD have been hit!

[03trubluGT]

Neither will defending cops who shot innocent bystanders. Don't give me the perfect situation crap. Jason, I believe, said that cops train with simunitions and other simulations for situations just like that. These idiots couldn't wait to engage and couldn't wait to dump entire magazines into the offender and that means 9 people injured. You call innocents getting shot by cops "shit happens?"

Damn I'm glad I'm not up in your neck of the woods with your officers 'protecting' me. I'd hate for them to respond to a hold up at 7-11 and start opening fire from the parking lot and injuring and killing everyone in the store.


And if I'm putting words into your mouth and taking things out of context, then say the cops fucked up and should be held accountable. That simple. You wouldn't catch near the hell and there wouldn't be nearly as many FTP threads if cops weren't saying "Well, of course innocents got shot by cops, these things happen." Or "the cop shot up the family pet in the pet's home but, hey, he probably had a dog phobia, these things happen." Say the cops were wrong and should be held accountable and move on. Damn, at least I admit when military fucks up.

Of course they couldn't wait! The SOB pulled a gun out and pointed it at them! WTF are they supposed to do?

This shit is old. The police will never live up to your standard, and that's all there is to it.

They can never do it right, and you have all the time in the world to armchair quarterback them.

[kingjason]

No, not lynched. I want them held accountable, personally, for every single person they shot that was not the bad guy. If I open fire on someone and miss, then I'm going to be charged for every bullet and every person that was not my intended target. I want cops actually held to account for injuring innocent people. If that means part of their paychecks go to pay the hospital bills until the bills are paid off and they pay for a settlement (them, not the city) with those injured taht they swore to serve and protect, then so be it. If that means pulling their badges and putting them on desk work until they prove that in an active shooter situation, they're not going to put 9 people in the hospital, that works too.

Some personal responsibility for personal actions while wearing that badge is all I'm asking for and what every single story (well, almost) boils down to. No hiding behind it, no "perfect scenario" comments. Personal responsibility. Did you open fire one someone and hit someone else? Yes? Then here's what happens when you dump an entire magazine into an area and you hurt bystanders.

There is not a doubt in my mind the city will pick up the tab on their bills and I am sure extra to boot. But you act like everyone should be perfect everyday. Joe blow CHL holder would not be handed his ass by the PD either if this guy turned a gun on them and they fired away. In my city there is no doubt I would be charged with murder and it would go to the grand jury. Probably charged with manslaughter if someone was killed by my bullets. I would also suffer the wraith of an internal and probably be sued by everyone that could even see me pull the trigger. Not sure on AADW with the injured people but there is a chance that could happen. Yep all for doing my job.

This is what you want right? Because I know for a fact thats how departments do it here. Scream and rant all you want but for what? Something that happens that they just dont put all over the news. The fact is it will go to grand jury, they will watch the video, then kick that shit straight out of court unless there is something sketchy involved. That way you can not blame they city, or admin, or whoever else you think is involved in the cover up. You just have a personal agenda against anyone in authority most of the time.

[no4njnk]

Next time they should ask the bad guy to stop and paint a target on his chest while standing still. The guy took one step and is moving? I don't expect cops to be perfect since they are human but I agree with Frost, they should be held accountable for this. Whether it is from lack/insufficient training it doesn't matter, there is no excuse for unloading 17 shots like they were playing Playstation 3 and injuring 9 civilians.

[Forever_frost]

There is not a doubt in my mind the city will pick up the tab on their bills and I am sure extra to boot. But you act like everyone should be perfect everyday. Joe blow CHL holder would not be handed his ass by the PD either if this guy turned a gun on them and they fired away. In my city there is no doubt I would be charged with murder and it would go to the grand jury. Probably charged with manslaughter if someone was killed by my bullets. I would also suffer the wraith of an internal and probably be sued by everyone that could even see me pull the trigger. Not sure on AADW with the injured people but there is a chance that could happen. Yep all for doing my job.

This is what you want right? Because I know for a fact thats how departments do it here. Scream and rant all you want but for what? Something that happens that they just dont put all over the news. The fact is it will go to grand jury, they will watch the video, then kick that shit straight out of court unless there is something sketchy involved. That way you can not blame they city, or admin, or whoever else you think is involved in the cover up. You just have a personal agenda against anyone in authority most of the time.

In general, not really. I have an issue with people in authority being able to hide behind that authority when they misuse or abuse it. In this instance, those cops, by their actions, caused injury to 9 citizens. The fact that they can do so while suffering no ill effects such as having to pay out of pocket for the hospital bills is irritating. Perhaps if the cops had to actually pay, personally, for the lives they effect in a negative way, they'd actually train with those weapons they wield.

How often do you require your officers to qualify? And how often do you require them to train under active shooter scenarios? I can tell you for a fact infantrymen actually train with real rounds firing over their heads and real explosives being set off around them. Why aren't cops held to that standard? You have FAR more power than us and more authority and actually are in the US wielding it

[03trubluGT]

In general, not really. I have an issue with people in authority being able to hide behind that authority when they misuse or abuse it. In this instance, those cops, by their actions, caused injury to 9 citizens. The fact that they can do so while suffering no ill effects such as having to pay out of pocket for the hospital bills is irritating. Perhaps if the cops had to actually pay, personally, for the lives they effect in a negative way, they'd actually train with those weapons they wield.

How often do you require your officers to qualify? And how often do you require them to train under active shooter scenarios? I can tell you for a fact infantrymen actually train with real rounds firing over their heads and real explosives being set off around them. Why aren't cops held to that standard? You have FAR more power than us and more authority and actually are in the US wielding it

You have no fucking idea what you are talking about.

As an agent they are not immune from liability. Police officers can and do get sued, but most oft people choose to go after the deep pockets of the employer (the city).

If the cops had to pay personally, do you really think anyone would take the fucking job? Would you?

How many times has Autozone or O'Reilly's made a counter person pay for a wrong part? How many times has a doctor actually paid for a malpractice suit? That's what malpractice insurance is for.

Standards say that officers qualify every 6 months (bi-annually). We get scenario training at least once a year, and if I find it available, I send my team as often as possible. We just went to a "Solo Officer Response to Active Shooter" class last month.

When I was in the Marines, we had to qualify once a year.

[03trubluGT]

Who's the retard who moved this to Smack??

[Forever_frost]

You have no fucking idea what you are talking about.

As an agent they are not immune from liability. Police officers can and do get sued, but most oft people choose to go after the deep pockets of the employer (the city).

If the cops had to pay personally, do you really think anyone would take the fucking job? Would you?

How many times has Autozone or O'Reilly's made a counter person pay for a wrong part? How many times has a doctor actually paid for a malpractice suit? That's what malpractice insurance is for.

Standards say that officers qualify every 6 months (bi-annually). We get scenario training at least once a year, and if I find it available, I send my team as often as possible. We just went to a "Solo Officer Response to Active Shooter" class last month.

When I was in the Marines, we had to qualify once a year.

Are you really comparing a cop shooting an innocent citizen to Autozone giving me the wrong spark plug?

And in the infantry we had to qualify every 3 months tops. Usually, more than that and we had field time where you actually used your weapon FAR more than that. If a cop is going to carry that weapon, he should be HIGHLY trained to use it. Do you not agree? Should be x range time per week, active shooter situations at least once a month and qualification every 2 months minimum.

[Osiris]

Are you really comparing a cop shooting an innocent citizen to Autozone giving me the wrong spark plug?

And in the infantry we had to qualify every 3 months tops. Usually, more than that and we had field time where you actually used your weapon FAR more than that. If a cop is going to carry that weapon, he should be HIGHLY trained to use it. Do you not agree? Should be x range time per week, active shooter situations at least once a month and qualification every 2 months minimum.

I wish We were trained like that.

[03trubluGT]

Are you really comparing a cop shooting an innocent citizen to Autozone giving me the wrong spark plug?

And in the infantry we had to qualify every 3 months tops. Usually, more than that and we had field time where you actually used your weapon FAR more than that. If a cop is going to carry that weapon, he should be HIGHLY trained to use it. Do you not agree? Should be x range time per week, active shooter situations at least once a month and qualification every 2 months minimum.

I'm giving an example of liability.

A cop SHOULD have more training, but I'll tell you it all boils down to money.

How much is a department willing to spend on targets, ammo, and range time?
How much is a department willing to spend on people to work that range?
How much is a department willing to spend to hire extra officers to work while the other officers train? Who is going to work the call load while these officers are off training?

Or you can read "how much more are taxpayers willing to spend" to accomplish these goals? There's a LOT more to the equation than just having an officer go train more. It's easy to say, but when you go looking at the fiscal aspects of it, you'll see the reason(s).

When I was in a foreign war, I'll tell you that I was guaranteed to have to use my weapon.

I know of MANY officers that worked an entire career and was NEVER involved in a shooting.

So, it all boils down to insurance. How much insurance is a department willing to spend of the tax monies on the off chance that something like this will happen? It's a calculated risk, and I'll bet that it's a risk the bean counters are willing to take to save that money.

It's also the reason that officers have qualified immunity.