Surnames - thought of the day

[Big A]

You've got me curious, my last name doesn't fit anything descibed above, though I do know that it's French in origin.

I'm also curious as to where your short window comes from, there are billions of people on the planet, and I'd venture to guess that alot of them don't have a last name that suits their ancestor's profession or lineage.

[LANTIRN]

I think of shit like this all the time.

But on the other side you have places like the middle east where they are use their father's name and there is no real surname. Osama bin Laden means Osama son of Laden. I think there were other ways of doing it besides "bin", but basically you would end up with some guy named Abdulla bin Fahad bin Abdul bin Saed bin Muhammed, which would translate to Abdulla son of Fahad son of Abdul son of Saed son of Muhammed. Basically the whole male lineage in your name but no surename. Of course they would usually just shorten it to Abdulla bin Fahad when going about normal day to day stuff.

[exlude]

This thread made me decide to look up the origin of my name as I didn't see it fitting into any of the categories.

I had no idea that Weathers would have been an occupational name for a shepherd, nor that it was amongst the oldest.

http://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/Weathers

[talisman]

you guys are gonna lulz at the origin of mine:

This is a surname which is ultimately of Ancient Greek origin through the later Roman "Cristianus". The word and hence the name means The leader, and it is said to have been introduced into England following the Norman Conquest of 1066 by Breton settlers. A more realistic explanation for its development through Christendom is its association with the famous Crusades of the 12th century to free the Holy Land from the Muslims, a little problem which is no nearer solution in the 20th century. During this time which is also known as the Christian Revival, many such names were brought back to Europe by returning warriors and given to their children as baptismals names becoming in the die course of time, surnames. This name was also used in the same forms as a female name, and in some cases the surname may be metronymic in origin. In England where the earliest recordings are to be found, Robert Crestien is recorded in the register of the bishopric of Ely, Cambridge, in 1163. Later London church registers include the christenings of William Christian on the 14th April 1543 at Christ Church, Greyfriars, and Abraham Christian, on the 6th October 1593 at St. Helen's, Bishopsgate. Surnames became necessary when governments introduced personal taxation. In England this was known as Poll Tax. Throughout the centuries, surnames in every country have continued to "develop" often leading to astonishing variants of the original spelling.

[Strychnine]

I'm also curious as to where your short window comes from, there are billions of people on the planet, and I'd venture to guess that alot of them don't have a last name that suits their ancestor's profession or lineage.

The issue isn't that the name fits any person on record. The issue is that all (say 99.5%) surnames have been "issued" at this point. No one is coming up with anything new.


Think over all of human history. Behavioral modernity (homo sapiens using "symbolic thought") is thought to have come about some 50,000-100,000 years ago. There's a lot of language theory that we could (but won't) dive into, but somewhere along the way the "symbolic thought" gave way to actual language. Spoken word, complete with accepted grammar and syntax.

15,000 year old cave paintings show that humans had a solid grasp on realizing and categorizing their world, expressing whatever they needed, and even recording their thoughts. I'm going to assume here that any group capable enough to organize that would also have some sort of naming system. Bob, Ooook-Ok, Jibbady-doo-clickclick, whatever.

Identification continued that way for a loooooong time.

Skip ahead 12 millenia:
In the 'eastern' world the Chinese used surnames. Say 2800 BC (legend says an emperor decreed it mandatory)

In the 'western' world the Egyptians didn't use surnames. The ancient Greeks didnt use surnames...The Romans actually did you hereditary surnames ('official' dates for the Empire start at 27 BC), but then in the Dark Ages it fell out of favor and people went back to just first names until the 1100s when it was en vogue again...

The modern hereditary use of surnames is a practice that originated among the Venetian aristocracy in Italy about the 10th or 11th centuries. Crusaders returning from the Holy Land took note of this custom and soon spread its use throughout Europe. France, the British isles, and then Germany and Spain began applying the practice as the need to distinguish individuals became more important. By the 1370's the word "Surname" was found in documents, and had come to acquire some emotive and dynastic significance

Now, like Slider mentioned, there were quite a few new names made via transcription errors during periods of mass migration, so we'll take the timespan of western world surname generation (and we'll spot the calculation the years b/w the romans and the 11th century) to span -27 through 1934 (when Ellis Island closed). That's 1961 years. In all the time people have been naming each other that's not a whole lot, and disregarding the rare cases of people making up new names, we won't have any more names added to the roster in the future...


Just some thoughts. I'm stuck in a hotel entertaining myself.

[BP]

I'm also curious as to where your short window comes from, there are billions of people on the planet, and I'd venture to guess that alot of them don't have a last name that suits their ancestor's profession or lineage.

Yeah but keep in mind that America was almost exclusively made up of British descendents until the 1800s. The Brits have been maintaining tax logs and fine roles on regular citizens since the 1300s. In those 500 years people didn't move from city to city unless they were royalty, clergy or in the military and in those cases they are all documented as well. Outside of slaves and native Americans nearly everyone in the US knew where they came from and their family history dating back 500 years. Heck most of them were still paying taxes to the King until 1776.

Basically if you can document your geneology prior to 1814 (end of the Napoleonic wars) there is a pretty good chance your surname is accurately reflecting how it was recorded originally in the 1300s. After then the French hoarded ships bound for the states, followed by the Irish, more British, etc... We didn't start keeping logs until the 1820s and it wasn't until the 1850 census when we asked where people were from.

[idrivea4banger]

you guys are gonna lulz at the origin of mine:

This is a surname which is ultimately of Ancient Greek origin through the later Roman "Cristianus". The word and hence the name means The leader, and it is said to have been introduced into England following the Norman Conquest of 1066 by Breton settlers. A more realistic explanation for its development through Christendom is its association with the famous Crusades of the 12th century to free the Holy Land from the Muslims, a little problem which is no nearer solution in the 20th century. During this time which is also known as the Christian Revival, many such names were brought back to Europe by returning warriors and given to their children as baptismals names becoming in the die course of time, surnames. This name was also used in the same forms as a female name, and in some cases the surname may be metronymic in origin. In England where the earliest recordings are to be found, Robert Crestien is recorded in the register of the bishopric of Ely, Cambridge, in 1163. Later London church registers include the christenings of William Christian on the 14th April 1543 at Christ Church, Greyfriars, and Abraham Christian, on the 6th October 1593 at St. Helen's, Bishopsgate. Surnames became necessary when governments introduced personal taxation. In England this was known as Poll Tax. Throughout the centuries, surnames in every country have continued to "develop" often leading to astonishing variants of the original spelling.

Well you did lead the mutiny from Canada to the new place, it fits wells.

[SlowLX]

Schlieder is how my name should look. I have no idea what it means but it's close'ish to Schneider so I assume someone along the way was a tailor in my family.

[Raskal]

Last name: Oxford
This interesting medieval surname is English. Recorded as Oxford and the original Oxenford, it is locational from the city of Oxford, the county town of Oxfordshire. The placename is derived from the Old English pre 7th century word "oxa", meaning the ox and "forda", a shallow river crossing suitable for traffic, and thus cattle ford. The place name was first recorded as "Oxnaford" in the famous Anglo-Saxon Chronicles of the year 912 a.d., and later as "Oxeneford" in the Domesday Book of 1086. Locational surnames were usually developed when former inhabitants of a place moved to another area, often to seek work, and were best identified by the name of their birthplace. In this case the surname development since 1086 has included examples such as Walter de Oxenforde in the city of London in 1319, Johannes de Oxenford of Yorkshire in the Poll Tax rolls of 1379, Ann Oxford, who was christened at St Brides church, Fleet Street, in the city of London in 1593, whilst Job Oxford married Margrett Godworth on July 15th 1660 at St. Dunstan's in the East, Stepney. The first recorded spelling of the family name is shown to be that of Ulric de Oxenford. This was dated 1086, in the Domesday Book for the county of Kent, during the reign of King William 1st, 1066 - 1087. Throughout the centuries, surnames in every country have continued to "develop" often leading to astonishing variants of the original spelling.

Read more: http://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/Oxford


Guess my last name fits pretty much into exactly what the op was talking about. oh well.

[YALE]

There are also a lot of surnames that developed from people wanting to associate themselves with politically important people. Etymology can get pretty nuts.

[Pokulski-Blatz]

Last name: Hrodbeorht
Please accept our apologies but this surname has yet to be researched.


What the fuck ..... gay.

[Snatch Napkin]

I'll drink to that!!

Last name: Harvey
This ancient surname, which is one of the earliest on record, is of English and Irish origin. It is also well recorded in Scotland, although the origin is as for England. The name has two possible sources, the first being from the Breton personal name "Aeruiu" or "Haerviu", composed of the elements "haer", meaning battle, and "vy", - worthy. The 1086 Domesday has various references to followers of William the Conqueror, including Herueu de Berruarius of Suffolk, and later Heuei de Castre of Lincoln, in 1157. These were not surnames, although in fact the first surname recording as shown below was only just behind. The second source is Irish, although in fact most nameholders in Ireland do descend from English settlers, it is said that a Galway clan called originally the O'hAirmheadhaigh, did 'anglicise' their name to Harvey or Harvie. The Gaelic translates as 'the descendant of the son of Airmed'. The surname is generally recorded as Harvey, Harvie, Hervie and Hervey, and early recordings include William Hervy of Essex in 1232, Warin Harvi in the Pipe Rolls of Cambridge for the year 1273, and John Hervy, burgess of Aberdeen in 1398. The roll of famous namebearers includes William Harvey (1578 - 1657), who discovered the circulation of the blood in 1616, whilst Edmond Harvey, a Parliamentarian Colonel, was one of the fifty three regicides who signed the death warrant of Charles 1st in January 1649. Beauchamp Bagenal Harvey was one of the 1798 leaders of the Irish rebellion, whilst curiously Robert Hervie of Scotland was a member of the Huntly Volunteer force, raised to combat a possible French-Irish invasion. The first recorded spelling of the family name is shown to be that of William Hervi, which was dated 1190, in the 'Calendar of Abbot Samson of Bury St. Edmunds, Suffolk', during the reign of King Richard 1, known as "The Lionheart", 1189 - 1199.

Read more: http://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/Harvey#ixzz1JLpzK8aT