police use pepper spray to subdue 8 year old at school

[lowthreeohz]

The kid and his mom both admitted that he probably deserved it.. so where's the problem? act up and get dealt with. I used to get my ass whooped all the time in the principals office..nobody thought it was excessive then..?

[347Mike]

Well I am asking YOU, and we're not in argument, but discussion over an 8 year old getting pepper sprayed

So, should the LEO's (by your opinion) have been better prepared to handle a situation with a kid like this? The easiest thing to do, of course seems to be, just spray his little ass. Mama always said doing what's easiest isn't always what's best.

My answer is not going to change. It is always easy to play armchair quarter back. But this is how I see it:

The kid has had 3 warnings and still fails to get it.
What happens on the 4th time when he does hurt someone? Then what?
There are a lot of what ifs in this and I prefer the only definite answer to be the little shit got pepper sprayed, he should have to pay for his actions, not some little girl minding her own business.

If you guys disagree with the pepper spray on my lawn scenario, what would you do if this little shit didn't have a cop spray him and he did throw a chair at someone and hurt your kid pretty badly ie something that affects their looks or something?

Again, this is all "what ifs" but the little shit got what he deserved, period, bottom line, the end.

[ThreeFingerPete]

Are you kidding? In this heavy litigation society you expect the teachers to touch the kid? LOL. We've taken so much power out of adult action now its sickening. The old adage "it takes a village to raise a child" is so far gone now because the village has been kneecapped by CPS, lawyers, and liberal do gooders that would rather "be nice" and "not offend" a child that needs a good ol' spanking.

I remember sitting in the principal's office and my mother telling the principal to spank me if I was a little shit. I don't think putting timmy in time out 1000x and then resorting to pepper spray when he's out of control is a reasonable alternative.
The cops had guns, why didn't they just shoot him?

[GhostTX]

I remember sitting in the principal's office and my mother telling the principal to spank me if I was a little shit. I don't think putting timmy in time out 1000x and then resorting to pepper spray when he's out of control is a reasonable alternative.
The cops had guns, why didn't they just shoot him?

I won't argue with you on the method. But since we've limited adults so much what's the alternative? All other forms of punishment/correction have been ruled out. We've pussified corporal punishment so much that the punishments they use now (timeout, etc) aren't really punishments.

The officers were probably reacting on their training for a hostile individual. They could either nightstick the kid or less risky to them was pepper spray.

If it was my kid, I'd grab the stick, flip the kid over and paddle him with it. However if I did that to a stranger's kid (heck, just twisting the kid's arm to restrain him) how many lawsuits would be dumped on me?

[MutherjuggZ]

Again, this is all "what ifs" but the little shit got what he deserved, period, bottom line, the end.

He definitely got what he deserved, don't get me wrong. If the cop had rushed in and tackled the kid... he would've got what he deserved. If the cop charged him, took the stick and then commenced to paddling his ass with a belt... he would've got what he deserved. The kid definitely deserved SOMETHING to happen for his behavior. It's just so sad that a whole circle of wrong had to take place with this kid, all because it started with mom being a fucktard.

[MutherjuggZ]

I won't argue with you on the method. But since we've limited adults so much what's the alternative? All other forms of punishment/correction have been ruled out. We've pussified corporal punishment so much that the punishments they use now (timeout, etc) aren't really punishments.

The officers were probably reacting on their training for a hostile individual. They could either nightstick the kid or less risky to them was pepper spray.

If it was my kid, I'd grab the stick, flip the kid over and paddle him with it. However if I did that to a stranger's kid (heck, just twisting the kid's arm to restrain him) how many lawsuits would be dumped on me?

I didn't think about it from that point of view. I mean the cop chose the lesser of 3 evils to handle the situation. A) shoot kid B) beat kid w/night stick C) spray kid.

Becomes a bit of no brainer at that point when faced with limiting options, none of which are good...but one of them still has to be chosen.

[347Mike]

He definitely got what he deserved, don't get me wrong. If the cop had rushed in and tackled the kid... he would've got what he deserved. If the cop charged him, took the stick and then commenced to paddling his ass with a belt... he would've got what he deserved. The kid definitely deserved SOMETHING to happen for his behavior. It's just so sad that a whole circle of wrong had to take place with this kid, all because it started with mom being a fucktard.

Simple enough, and I agree, but again fixing moms problem with how to manage her son is far to gone. The problem is the kid, involving mom every minute in the day to fix the problem won't fix him. Mom lost her shot, hopefully she doesn't have anymore kids.

[mstng86]

Simple enough, and I agree, but again fixing moms problem with how to manage her son is far to gone. The problem is the kid, involving mom every minute in the day to fix the problem won't fix him. Mom lost her shot, hopefully she doesn't have anymore kids.

the kid is only 8 years old. I think she still has time to rectify his behaviors. I doubt it will happen though. He will be just another problem for our criminal institutions.

[347Mike]

the kid is only 8 years old. I think she still has time to rectify his behaviors. I doubt it will happen though. He will be just another problem for our criminal institutions.

Yeah and once he is a year or two older he will be devloping his own opinion and be calling his mom a slut and a whore like the kids on Maury..

[grove rat]

\/ next poster gets pepper sprayed in the face at the next dfwm g2g

[MutherjuggZ]

[GhostTX]

Gotta post some Heinlein:

"... Have you ever raised a puppy?"
"Yes, sir."
"Did you housebreak him?"
"Err . . . yes, sir. Eventually." It was my slowness in this that caused my mother to rule that dogs must stay out of the house.
"Ah, yes. When your puppy made mistakes, were you angry?"
"What? Why, he didn't know any better; he was just a puppy.
"What did you do?"
"Why, I scolded him and rubbed his nose in it and paddled him."
"Surely he could not understand your words?"
"No, but he could tell I was sore at him!"
"But you just said that you were not angry."
Mr. Dubois had an infuriating way of getting a person mixed up. "No, but I had to make him think I was. He had to learn, didn't he?"
"Conceded. But, having made it clear to him that you disapproved, how could you be so cruel as to spank him as well? You said the poor beastie didn't know that he was doing wrong. Yet you indicted pain. Justify yourself! Or are you a sadist?"
I didn't then know what a sadist was -- but I knew pups. "Mr. Dubois, you have to! You scold him so that he knows he's in trouble, you rub his nose in it so that he will know what trouble you mean, you paddle him so that he darn well won't do it again -- and you have to do it right away! It doesn't do a bit of good to punish him later; you'll just confuse him. Even so, he won't learn from one lesson, so you watch and catch him again and paddle him still harder. Pretty soon he learns. But it's a waste of breath just to scold him." Then I added, "I guess you've never raised pups."
"Many. I'm raising a dachshund now -- by your methods. Let's get back to those juvenile criminals. The most vicious averaged somewhat younger than you here in this class . . . and they often started their lawless careers much younger. Let us never forget that puppy. These children were often caught; police arrested batches each day. Were they scolded? Yes, often scathingly. Were their noses rubbed in it? Rarely. News organs and officials usually kept their names secret -- in many places the law so required for criminals under eighteen. Were they spanked? Indeed not! Many had never been spanked even as small children; there was a widespread belief that spanking, or any punishment involving pain, did a child permanent psychic damage."
(I had reflected that my father must never have heard of that theory.)
"Corporal punishment in schools was forbidden by law," he had gone on. "Flogging was lawful as sentence of court only in one small province, Delaware, and there only for a few crimes and was rarely invoked; it was regarded as `cruel and unusual punishment.' " Dubois had mused aloud, "I do not understand objections to `cruel and unusual' punishment. While a judge should be benevolent in purpose, his awards should cause the criminal to suffer, else there is no punishment -- and pain is the basic mechanism built into us by millions of years of evolution which safeguards us by warning when something threatens our survival. Why should society refuse to use such a highly perfected survival mechanism? However, that period was loaded with pre-scientific pseudo-psychological nonsense.
"As for `unusual,' punishment must be unusual or it serves no purpose."
He then pointed his stump at another boy. "What would happen if a puppy were spanked every hour?"
"Uh . . . probably drive him crazy!"
"Probably. It certainly will not teach him anything. How long has it been since the principal of this school last had to switch a pupil?"
"Uh, I'm not sure. About two years. The kid that swiped -- "
"Never mind. Long enough. It means that such punishment is so unusual as to be significant, to deter, to instruct. Back to these young criminals -- They probably were not spanked as babies; they certainly were not flogged for their crimes. The usual sequence was: for a first offense, a warning -- a scolding, often without trial. After several offenses a sentence of confinement but with sentence suspended and the youngster placed on probation. A boy might be arrested many times and convicted several times before he was punished -- and then it would be merely confinement, with others like him from whom he learned still more criminal habits. If he kept out of major trouble while confined, he could usually evade most of even that mild punishment, be given probation -- `paroled' in the jargon of the
times.
"This incredible sequence could go on for years while his crimes increased in frequency and viciousness, with no punishment whatever save rare dull-but-comfortable confinements. Then suddenly, usually by law on his eighteenth birthday, this so-called `juvenile delinquent' becomes an adult criminal -- and sometimes wound up in only weeks or months in a death cell awaiting execution for murder. You -- "
He had singled me out again. "Suppose you merely scolded your puppy, never punished him, let him go on making messes in the house . . . and occasionally locked him up in an outbuilding but soon let him back into the house with a warning not to do it again. Then one day you notice that he is now a grown dog and still not housebroken -- whereupon you whip out a gun and shoot him dead. Comment, please?"
"Why . . . that's the craziest way to raise a dog I ever heard of!"
"I agree. Or a child. Whose fault would it be?"
"Uh . . . why, mine, I guess."
"Again I agree. But I'm not guessing."
"Mr. Dubois," a girl blurted out, "but why? Why didn't they spank little kids when they needed it and use a good dose of the strap on any older ones who deserved it -- the sort of lesson they wouldn't forget! I mean ones who did things really bad. Why not?"
"I don't know," he had answered grimly, "except that the time-tested method of instilling social virtue and respect for law in the minds of the young did not appeal to a pre-scientific pseudo-professional class who called themselves `social workers' or sometimes `child psychologists.' It was too simple for them, apparently, since anybody could do it, using only the patience and firmness needed in training a puppy. I have sometimes wondered if they cherished a vested interest in disorder -- but that is unlikely; adults almost always act from conscious `highest motives' no matter what their behavior."
...

[clevelandkid]

Love how the mom thinks that "special" police should have been dispatched to deal with junior's epic meltdown. Let's not focus on the problem - the child - and deflect to how the problem was dealt with...

Sorry, but if you start causing problems, you're going to get the first available officer, period. While pepper spray may seem excessive, it did absolutely zero lasting damage to the child, and stopped the problem. If he acts out in class again, they should pepper spray AND taze him.

[mstng86]

Anyone else wonder how the timeout sessions went with this kid?

Mom: "Stop trying to burn down the house, go to timeout!"
Kid: "No."
Mom: "Ok."

Kids need more than just a timeout.

[big_tiger]

"Talk him down like they have before?" So this isn't the first time the police have dealt with him??? lol he got what he was asking for.