Let's discuss college degrees

[Ruffdaddy]

Graduated in 2017 with it. I do our company's in-house work, so I'm using it, it's just not my primary function.

Upon graduation I started getting into cybersecurity consulting that led to 16-18 hour days trying to learn that shit and comb through it all. There other alternatives weren't much better. There was also a stat running through my head that lawyers have an 80% attrition rate within 5 years. It's constant stress, long hours, and the money isn't what it once was, unless you go big firm.

That's pretty awesome. I've heard mixed reviews about going into law...but I have a friend that got a specialized masters degree in cybersecurity and he was making over 500K a year in the bay area. Hes back in texas now and naturally took a pay cut but is still in the $300s. It's a hot field.

I had thought about going into Patent Law...but that would have been mostly for money and only the top firms pay enough to make it worth it. After having to review all of my own patent submissions after the lawyers do their magic...I have completely lost interest lol.

[Ruffdaddy]

I’m always debating on whether or not to go back to college but I don’t think I’d ever get an IT degree. My experience is that most college classes are behind the times by a few years. I would instead get a business degree that has some minor in IT management.

I myself only have a high school degree but my experience has led me to work at the Pentagon, Microsoft, Perot Systems, EDS/HP/HPE, and now at VMware. I make enough that my wife doesn’t have to work, we own a decent house with a great view of the Rocky Mountains, I can actually afford to pay for my a lot of my son’s autism treatments, blah blah blah, I’m well compensated.


To me, you have to look at the real value a degree will bring. If you spend $40K getting one, will you make that money back in addition to your current pay level and will you make it back in a decent amount of time. Also there is the time investment. Finally, do you find personal value in the notion you’re improving yourself. Right now, I don’t think a college degree gives me those things and I certainly don’t want to take time away from my son to invest in it. So I just keep reading books.




I have spoken..

You bring up a few really.good points.

1 - minors are a great way to get the degree you really want or an easier degree while also specializing in the area you need to.

2 - if you are paying it out of pocket...it needs to pay off. Many employers pay for degrees now.

I believe you're sales correct? That seems to be the most common field that you can still make bank without a college degree. But we've also been in an incredibly long period of economic expansion. I've seen a few friends recently get hit hard by industries that are already softening and it's been a huge lifestyle impact. A college degree is insurance against this to some degree. It obvious wont magically Save you...but when unemployment is back at 5% or more you will want any advantage you can get.

[Sgt Beavis]

I’m always debating on whether or not to go back to college but I don’t think I’d ever get an IT degree. My experience is that most college classes are behind the times by a few years. I would instead get a business degree that has some minor in IT management.

I myself only have a high school degree but my experience has led me to work at the Pentagon, Microsoft, Perot Systems, EDS/HP/HPE, and now at VMware. I make enough that my wife doesn’t have to work, we own a decent house with a great view of the Rocky Mountains, I can actually afford to pay for my a lot of my son’s autism treatments, blah blah blah, I’m well compensated.


To me, you have to look at the real value a degree will bring. If you spend $40K getting one, will you make that money back in addition to your current pay level and will you make it back in a decent amount of time. Also there is the time investment. Finally, do you find personal value in the notion you’re improving yourself. Right now, I don’t think a college degree gives me those things and I certainly don’t want to take time away from my son to invest in it. So I just keep reading books.




I have spoken..

[Sean88gt]

I never realized you actually finished the JD...why would you go through that pain and not work as a lawyer?

Hate paperwork?

Graduated in 2017 with it. I do our company's in-house work, so I'm using it, it's just not my primary function.

Upon graduation I started getting into cybersecurity consulting that led to 16-18 hour days trying to learn that shit and comb through it all. There other alternatives weren't much better. There was also a stat running through my head that lawyers have an 80% attrition rate within 5 years. It's constant stress, long hours, and the money isn't what it once was, unless you go big firm.

[chronical]

This answers what i was getting at.

We will regularly hire engineers before they have finished their degree...but its understood that the degree will be completed before a full time transition.

The idea is that the requirement will be satisfied before actually starting primary job duties so it is not a disqualifier.

But different industries handle this differently...and sometimes this wont come into play until you hit the higher levels of a profession and everyone has 10+ years of experience. Then it's pretty important to have a differentiators. You have clearly already indicated you're aware of this.

Yeah man. I am glad I did it and never have to worry about the education piece again. Jobs in many industries can be competitive and with so much to stress over, taking that one away is a good thing. I have a couple friends who have shown mild interest in going back to school after watching me do it. If someone can just suck it up for 3-4 years, anyone can finish college. So much of it is a completion grade honestly.

[Ruffdaddy]

If you mean the bachelors degree, I don't have it yet. I walk on Dec 13th. Perhaps the two year degree and the anticipated graduation listed on my resume helped. Going back to college certainly helped during the interview process by building confidence and pride. If anything, it shows employers you are able stick to something through the end.

This answers what i was getting at.

We will regularly hire engineers before they have finished their degree...but its understood that the degree will be completed before a full time transition.

The idea is that the requirement will be satisfied before actually starting primary job duties so it is not a disqualifier.

But different industries handle this differently...and sometimes this wont come into play until you hit the higher levels of a profession and everyone has 10+ years of experience. Then it's pretty important to have a differentiators. You have clearly already indicated you're aware of this.

[chronical]

I know for a lot of roles not having a degree is a disqualifier...do you know for sure that the degree was never going matter? It really sucks, because I think degrees are over rated...but they seem to be more of a method for deciding who to weed out now as compared to a positive attribute. If you weren't about to graduate...do you think it would be a different situation?

My experience is obviously very very different so I have no clue if your industry is the same.

I think it does matter. Everyone I was competing with had degrees and not having one gives an employer a reason to pass you up. In my case, I ended up not needing it but that isn't the norm. Get the degree. Take as much at a community college to save money. My total student loan debt is about $10k which is worth it to me.

Lastly, If I wasn't graduating in two weeks, I think I would still continue with my course work. If nothing else, to set an example for my kids.

[chronical]

Do you not think that having the degree had a positive effect on the interview process?

If you mean the bachelors degree, I don't have it yet. I walk on Dec 13th. Perhaps the two year degree and the anticipated graduation listed on my resume helped. Going back to college certainly helped during the interview process by building confidence and pride. If anything, it shows employers you are able stick to something through the end.

[Ruffdaddy]

BA in Applied Economics (business but I had other hours I needed to graduate) and a JD.

I use the first more so than the latter, but the latter changed the way I think and approach thing, and the company likes having the horsepower of that. I end up doing our in-house stuff, HR, contracts, etc., but that isn't my main function.

The degree won't hurt you, and it may throw you down a path you didn't anticipate.

I never realized you actually finished the JD...why would you go through that pain and not work as a lawyer?

Hate paperwork?

[Ruffdaddy]

There is a thread I'll bump where I was talking about leaving a good paying job to do something I was more passionate about. I had a good plan and understood I'd have to pay my dues and get my foot in the door before I could go after the job I really wanted. It was then I immediately realize how outgunned I was when it came to education. Just within my group of 80, there were 15 other people who already had the necessary license I also possessed, but in addition where instrument rated pilots, aeronautic and aviation majors, and alumni from MTSU and Embry Riddle. I decided within my first week to go back to school. In 2.5 years, I snagged a two year degree from a community college and graduate from UNT in two weeks with a bachelors in Aviation Logistics.

My whole motivation was to make myself more competitive among my peers and what's ironic is I landed the dream job two months ago making the degree completely unnecessary at this point.

You really have no way of knowing how valuable or invaluable your degree will be in every scenario. Going back to school did help me to get organized and back in that learning mindset. I am 35 now so high school was a long time ago. I would recommend going for it.

I know for a lot of roles not having a degree is a disqualifier...do you know for sure that the degree was never going matter? It really sucks, because I think degrees are over rated...but they seem to be more of a method for deciding who to weed out now as compared to a positive attribute. If you weren't about to graduate...do you think it would be a different situation?

My experience is obviously very very different so I have no clue if your industry is the same.

[Big A]

My whole motivation was to make myself more competitive among my peers and what's ironic is I landed the dream job two months ago making the degree completely unnecessary at this point.

Do you not think that having the degree had a positive effect on the interview process?

[chronical]

There is a thread I'll bump where I was talking about leaving a good paying job to do something I was more passionate about. I had a good plan and understood I'd have to pay my dues and get my foot in the door before I could go after the job I really wanted. It was then I immediately realize how outgunned I was when it came to education. Just within my group of 80, there were 15 other people who already had the necessary license I also possessed, but in addition where instrument rated pilots, aeronautic and aviation majors, and alumni from MTSU and Embry Riddle. I decided within my first week to go back to school. In 2.5 years, I snagged a two year degree from a community college and graduate from UNT in two weeks with a bachelors in Aviation Logistics.

My whole motivation was to make myself more competitive among my peers and what's ironic is I landed the dream job two months ago making the degree completely unnecessary at this point.

You really have no way of knowing how valuable or invaluable your degree will be in every scenario. Going back to school did help me to get organized and back in that learning mindset. I am 35 now so high school was a long time ago. I would recommend going for it.

[Sean88gt]

BA in Applied Economics (business but I had other hours I needed to graduate) and a JD.

I use the first more so than the latter, but the latter changed the way I think and approach thing, and the company likes having the horsepower of that. I end up doing our in-house stuff, HR, contracts, etc., but that isn't my main function.

The degree won't hurt you, and it may throw you down a path you didn't anticipate.

[garycrist]

What makes you happy?

Go for that and the money will become secondary.

I would rather be happy and "poor" than miserable
with money!

[32vfromhell]

A degree in computer science would do you well because its educationally different enough than "an IT degree".

"director" is such a broad goal that it doesnt even really help narrow anything down. You could be director of delivery,content management, technology, networking, Security Operations, DevOps, Applications, etc etc and each of those requires specialty skills.

I would recommend as a "generalist" you take heavy computer science courses, learn basic programming or networking to let you talk the talk and then work on getting some Agile certifications from Scrum Alliance.

I have a CSM and working on ACSM and CSPO certs right now. My PMP cert is on hold because they hold a lot less value nowadays than they used to.