Let's discuss college degrees

[Silverback]

First off, thanks for all of the feedback. I've been off these past two weeks and have literally not been on the computer. Just about every post touched on something that is the reason behind wanting to go back. In fact, of few guys from my team went to the AWS conference last week so we were discussing that over lunch and it just solidified my decision to go back.

The primary reason is because this field is ever changing and I'm tired of trying to keep up with the technical stuff. The second reason is to allow me to be competitive in order to advance into a leadership role.

As far as technical degrees, maybe I'm missing something but being in IT, learning a IT related study in college would be outdated by the time I finished the course. Most of that is gained by way of boot camps, labs, conferences, etc. My main focus has been Cisco technologies in networking, wireless, VoIP (shudders), in additon to the occasional 3rd party firewall, archiver, web filter etc., all of which I learned on my own or by already having a solid networking foundation. It all just builds on what you already know. But again , that's from being in the trenches for so long. And that's not even touching on AWS, software defined networking, wifi-6, new threat prevention technologies, it just never ends.

I think the third reason and I really don't think this is too far fetched, is the younger generation. I'm in my mid 40's and really don't see myself doing this till I'm 65. At some point, age will be an unspoken issue. Especially if for some reason, I cut ties with this place and I'm all of the sudden going to competing for the same engineer role with people in their late 20's and 30's with college degrees.

I will literally be working on my core subjects for the next couple years so I have time I guess. I just recall the last time I enrolled I had to choose a degree plan. I know they advised I go for a AAS so I know that is what's on record but from what I read, an AAS degree won't count towards a BS degree,

I would work backwards... decide on the Bachelors you want, and the school you plan to attend. Then contact them for their Community College transfer requirements. Most will give you a list of the exact classes from the exact school you are attending that will be able to be used as transfers.

I chose Dallas County, and received an Associates of Science - Field of Study Business. Then I went to A&M Commerce and did their Bachelors of Applied Arts and Sciences - Business program, and followed that up with an MBA from A&M Corpus Christi. Every class I took was with the end goal of the MBA in mind. If it didn't count to the transfer to A&M Commerce's program and electives weren't business oriented, I didn't take it. I found an equivalent that met both the Associates and the Bachelor transfer requirements.

[jewozzy]

First off, thanks for all of the feedback. I've been off these past two weeks and have literally not been on the computer. Just about every post touched on something that is the reason behind wanting to go back. In fact, of few guys from my team went to the AWS conference last week so we were discussing that over lunch and it just solidified my decision to go back.

The primary reason is because this field is ever changing and I'm tired of trying to keep up with the technical stuff. The second reason is to allow me to be competitive in order to advance into a leadership role.

As far as technical degrees, maybe I'm missing something but being in IT, learning a IT related study in college would be outdated by the time I finished the course. Most of that is gained by way of boot camps, labs, conferences, etc. My main focus has been Cisco technologies in networking, wireless, VoIP (shudders), in additon to the occasional 3rd party firewall, archiver, web filter etc., all of which I learned on my own or by already having a solid networking foundation. It all just builds on what you already know. But again , that's from being in the trenches for so long. And that's not even touching on AWS, software defined networking, wifi-6, new threat prevention technologies, it just never ends.

I think the third reason and I really don't think this is too far fetched, is the younger generation. I'm in my mid 40's and really don't see myself doing this till I'm 65. At some point, age will be an unspoken issue. Especially if for some reason, I cut ties with this place and I'm all of the sudden going to competing for the same engineer role with people in their late 20's and 30's with college degrees.

I will literally be working on my core subjects for the next couple years so I have time I guess. I just recall the last time I enrolled I had to choose a degree plan. I know they advised I go for a AAS so I know that is what's on record but from what I read, an AAS degree won't count towards a BS degree,

You should def look into the sources I mentioned. If you're not big into what the college name is and you basically need a check the box degree then with the certs you have and the alternative credit options, you could realistically have a degree in a year. It all depends how hard/fast you want to dedicate and work towards it.

[GeorgeG.]

First off, thanks for all of the feedback. I've been off these past two weeks and have literally not been on the computer. Just about every post touched on something that is the reason behind wanting to go back. In fact, of few guys from my team went to the AWS conference last week so we were discussing that over lunch and it just solidified my decision to go back.

The primary reason is because this field is ever changing and I'm tired of trying to keep up with the technical stuff. The second reason is to allow me to be competitive in order to advance into a leadership role.

As far as technical degrees, maybe I'm missing something but being in IT, learning a IT related study in college would be outdated by the time I finished the course. Most of that is gained by way of boot camps, labs, conferences, etc. My main focus has been Cisco technologies in networking, wireless, VoIP (shudders), in additon to the occasional 3rd party firewall, archiver, web filter etc., all of which I learned on my own or by already having a solid networking foundation. It all just builds on what you already know. But again , that's from being in the trenches for so long. And that's not even touching on AWS, software defined networking, wifi-6, new threat prevention technologies, it just never ends.

I think the third reason and I really don't think this is too far fetched, is the younger generation. I'm in my mid 40's and really don't see myself doing this till I'm 65. At some point, age will be an unspoken issue. Especially if for some reason, I cut ties with this place and I'm all of the sudden going to competing for the same engineer role with people in their late 20's and 30's with college degrees.

I will literally be working on my core subjects for the next couple years so I have time I guess. I just recall the last time I enrolled I had to choose a degree plan. I know they advised I go for a AAS so I know that is what's on record but from what I read, an AAS degree won't count towards a BS degree,

[bcoop]

What's the new role?

I started a business buying and fixing defaulted mortgages. I’m still in Foodservice for now. This is part time until I’ve got enough assets to support my salary

[Broncojohnny]

If they are partners, absolutely. Associates? Not so much. I think top 10 firms pay out around $200k to associates.

I talked to a partner from a large firm that was shipped over to Hong Kong because he spoke Chinese. He spent 20 years over there. Guy makes 1.5-2mm/year now as a partner and he weeks include flying out to NYC on Sunday nights and flying home Friday nights. He heads up their FINRA section. Has been divorced multiple times, kids hate him, and he can't go anywhere else, but he's getting paid!

Yes, three partners, three associates. The partners bill $650 to $1,100 an hour. The top guy is a whiz at the sale of corporate entities but he can't retire because he has three do nothing kids who won't move away from home. He sent me his landscaping contract for his house once by accident and he pays $600 a month to have his lawn mowed. I wonder what the three do nothing kids are doing all day. That guy's life is messed up but he is a solid dude when it comes to legal work.

Read the recent WSJ article about how much the partners made at Kirkland & Ellis last year. It is nuts. But all the big firms are fucking the partner system up. I would not do what Mr. Hong Kong does, that is nuts.

[AnthonyS]

I'd bet these guys make double that. That feels right anyway. They billed us $650K for one deal in October. That is for a team of about six people over there with three being close to entry level associates so it seems about right. Anyway, it still does not seem worth it when you talk to them.

I work for a pretty okay consulting firm that charges about what law firms do an hour. I get paid well, but it's not as well as you think. I also know more than a few lawyers that have done the big corporate law thing. A lot of money comes in, but it concentrates near the top.

At my firm I'm literally 3 people from the CEO, but those 3 rungs do much better salary wise. I'm not on the board so I don't know the exact numbers but I have a pretty good idea. My division earns about $20M a year for the company, and I'm the one guy with the responsibility I have for every project ;so my hand is in everything, but it doesn't pay what you would think.

Two of my friends left high end corporate law one to work for the SEC and one to clerk for a Federal Judge. They get paid a little bit less, but they have lives now. I'm considering a similar career move in the next 3-5 years myself. Giving up some money to travel less, spend more time with my kids and in the garage is looking pretty good.

[slow99]

I'm not in the OP's field but I am the Director of Corporate Finance & Strategy for a group of platforms with 3 publicly traded stocks. I echo others' thoughts regarding the benefits of a technical discipline.

Bachelor's - Economics
MBA - Finance, Investments
CFA Charterholder
Also several of the silly SEC finance licenses that were a requirement for a former role.

Most people I work with who are Director level or above have a Masters, only a few with the CFA Charter as well.

With that said, I'm in the midst of a career change. With the new gig, a degree in finance would be beneficial, but is not necessary. It helps that I set the job requirements.

What's the new role?

[Sean88gt]

I'd bet these guys make double that. That feels right anyway. They billed us $650K for one deal in October. That is for a team of about six people over there with three being close to entry level associates so it seems about right. Anyway, it still does not seem worth it when you talk to them.

If they are partners, absolutely. Associates? Not so much. I think top 10 firms pay out around $200k to associates.

I talked to a partner from a large firm that was shipped over to Hong Kong because he spoke Chinese. He spent 20 years over there. Guy makes 1.5-2mm/year now as a partner and he weeks include flying out to NYC on Sunday nights and flying home Friday nights. He heads up their FINRA section. Has been divorced multiple times, kids hate him, and he can't go anywhere else, but he's getting paid!

[bcoop]

No degree. Companies hiring for my position are now requiring degrees, but I think that's more due to an issue of "labor problems" that exist in my industry. I've got 20 years experience, and could pretty much write my own ticket in this industry, unless I wanted to go work for a public company (I don't).

With that said, I'm in the midst of a career change. With the new gig, a degree in finance would be beneficial, but is not necessary. It helps that I set the job requirements.

[GrayStangGT]

BBA in Economics which I don't really use at all lol. I did have a friend who did IT stuff in the military then went and got a BS in Computer Engineering from LSU and he had multiple offers that were all pretty good right out of college.

[Broncojohnny]

Big firms will start $145-160k. You can bonus out to about $250k-300k

I'd bet these guys make double that. That feels right anyway. They billed us $650K for one deal in October. That is for a team of about six people over there with three being close to entry level associates so it seems about right. Anyway, it still does not seem worth it when you talk to them.

[Sean88gt]

That's pretty awesome. I've heard mixed reviews about going into law...but I have a friend that got a specialized masters degree in cybersecurity and he was making over 500K a year in the bay area. Hes back in texas now and naturally took a pay cut but is still in the $300s. It's a hot field.

I had thought about going into Patent Law...but that would have been mostly for money and only the top firms pay enough to make it worth it. After having to review all of my own patent submissions after the lawyers do their magic...I have completely lost interest lol.

Patent bar is a motherfucker. Far higher failure rate than the bar.
Cybersecurity was interesting, but the company was shitty and burned me out.

I use attorneys from big firms quite a bit and the hours are absurd. Like I get emails at 3am on Sunday morning type of insane. They do go through a lot of low level people. The money is good but it isn't incredible from what they tell me. I don't know why anyone would want to do that job, it is mostly reading contracts and thinking up strategies to deal with idiots.

One thing that irks me about the whole profession is that I can have the best lawyer in the world in my corner and we can make the best plans. Yet if the other side has some ass clown running their show it makes things ten times harder and costs us tons of money.

Big firms will start $145-160k. You can bonus out to about $250k-300k, but you have a 3 year window. The moment they decide between paying you or hiring a new associate, they choose the latter and you're fucked anyway. When you factor in 100+ hours per week, you're not doing that well.

And you're absolutely right. The attorneys bolster each other. I clerked for a judge and we had a case that had drug on for years, the legal fees exceeded the jurisdictional limits of the court. I did some heavy digging, had to go through divorce decrees, property filings, etc., and we found out that it had been established nearly 17 years prior in the divorce. The judge dismissed the case and awarded zero in legal fees. Ate both legal teams collective asses for wasting time and money and suggested their clients file grievances for the waste of time and life.

[Broncojohnny]

Graduated in 2017 with it. I do our company's in-house work, so I'm using it, it's just not my primary function.

Upon graduation I started getting into cybersecurity consulting that led to 16-18 hour days trying to learn that shit and comb through it all. There other alternatives weren't much better. There was also a stat running through my head that lawyers have an 80% attrition rate within 5 years. It's constant stress, long hours, and the money isn't what it once was, unless you go big firm.

I use attorneys from big firms quite a bit and the hours are absurd. Like I get emails at 3am on Sunday morning type of insane. They do go through a lot of low level people. The money is good but it isn't incredible from what they tell me. I don't know why anyone would want to do that job, it is mostly reading contracts and thinking up strategies to deal with idiots.

One thing that irks me about the whole profession is that I can have the best lawyer in the world in my corner and we can make the best plans. Yet if the other side has some ass clown running their show it makes things ten times harder and costs us tons of money.

[Silverback]

I've been in IT my whole career. Started doing desktop/hardware support after dropping out of college, because I didn't want to be a programmer, and that's all the degrees available at the time. I moved into server/Windows Admin type of work, then became a jack of all trades with a focus on Wintel/AD/Citrix/VMware over the years. I went back to school in my late 30s, and ended up with an Associates of Business, then a Bachelors of Applied Science - Business, and finally an MBA all while working my way up to middle management for Perot Systems/Dell Services.

Once I had my MBA, I decided to get a little less technical and focus on leadership/management. I was an IT Director for a hotel chain, started my own business in the IT/OT Manufacturing area with a buddy who came out of Industrial Controls business. Now I'm a Delivery Executive for AWS. I like the Delivery role, allows me to understand the technology, but not be hands on in it daily clicking away at the keyboard. I'm more strategic for our customers, putting out fires, and helping them navigate the world of the cloud and understand their business outcomes.

If you want to remain technical, get a technical degree, and go after certifications in areas that you want to work. If you want to move into leadership/management focus on understanding business. Educate yourself beyond the degree on leadership principals, and techniques. Understand people management and organizational behavior.

[AnthonyS]

No matter what your current situation is, the key to changing it is education. There are lots of forms of education that don’t involve degrees though. Knowledge and skill leads to opportunities. The more things you know and can do, the better.

Someone asked about a degree helping you in interviews: not a bit. However if you don’t have a degree you may not get an interview at all.

I was the first person in my family to get a bachelor’s then masters both technically oriented. It was time well spent. I considered a PhD but don’t have time for it and have kids now.

I still do not recommend degrees for everyone. There are lots of ways to make money if that’s the issue.