Let's discuss college degrees

[Ruffdaddy]

You are jaded by the fact that we are in the longest period of economic expansion on record. That "few years ago" you talked about can and will come back. As long as you can keep your job that's great but if you're laid off...jumping back into a six figure IT job will be far from trivial without a real degree.

[mikeb]

You are going to get different opinions on whether having a degree is a useful thing.

For some fields having as many advanced degrees as you can get is an advantage - doctor, lawyer, etc. For IT? It depends...

A few years ago the number of job applicants in IT was way higher than the number of available jobs - possession of a degree was used as a filter by employers to thin out the number of resumes that they had to weed through.

Now? Not so much. There are more IT jobs available than can be filled. Employers are placing less emphasis on having a degree so that they can put butts in seats. They are looking for people that are bright and are eager to learn.

I've been in the IT field as a developer for around 35 years. I managed to get a useless associates degree while I was working full time making good money but it's never done anything for me. Recently I looked into getting a computer science degree but the courses I'd have to take have *NOTHING* to do with my job - courses such as calculus and physics. The bottom line is that I'm 57, I'm making 6 figures, and I'm simply not interested in wasting time climbing that hill just to be able to say I did.

Its been my experience that if you have a good work ethic, you are willing to start at the bottom, you are good at what you do, you are a quick learner, and you are willing to tackle nasty assignments that no one else wants - you can find work and make good money without a 4 year degree in IT.

[GeorgeG.]

As of now, I narrowed down my BS degree plan to either a BS of Business Administration from UNT or a BS in Information Technology and Systems from UTD, with a slight lean towards UTD. I need to take an afternoon off and really digest the information on their website and/or meet with an advisor, however, that's really a fairly long ways down the road. I like the idea of maximizing my core credit hours to satisfy as many classes as possible once I transfer, as mentioned earlier.

Unfortunately, I may have missed the deadline for Spring 2020

[Ruffdaddy]

Awesome...chem E sounds like a better choice. I took some masters coursework in materials science which isnt too far from Chem E and loved it. I hope your plans work out...I've been the external hire a few times from a technical standpoint and I always started out thoroughly disliked by all the internal candidates that felt passed up. But the truth was similar to what you mention...the infrastrucutre to train internally just wasn't in place.

Sometimes that external hire is brought in purely because of the contacts and relationships they have. Hopefully that's not the case given this field is still somewhat "emerging".

[Strychnine]

Fuck that...ESPECIALLY chemistry. While a masters is generally easier than an undergrad...chemistry is just really different and complex.

What is your target job after this?

Future unknown, but...
We're the global leader in what we do (renewable fuels). Right now in North America we do diesel and jet, but we have the technology to do renewable plastics also (both plastic to fuel and renewable feedstock to plastic). I'm currently our technical expert in the western hemisphere for diesel fuels, but we can all read the tea leaves and know that we're going to have production in the US for plastics one day (5 yrs?)
We're also growing FAST and there's no time to train internally, so a lot of new leadership hires are coming from outside (installing new positions between the current North American heads and the European director / VP levels). I've talked to HR about this and they said they'd like to hire internally but most internal candidates aren't on the right page.
My goal is to still be the technical head for this side of the globe for all products while, and after, we get into these other products that are much more complex...
Long story short, I and want them to never bothering looking externally when the time comes.



And FWIW, decided to look more into MS Chemical Engineering than chemistry.

[Big A]

People don't value professional services, think they can handle the situation, and end up taking pipe because they were smart enough to fuck themselves over.

Makes me think of the anecdote where the mechanic fixes a cruise ship's with a single tap of a hammer, and the ship's owner didn't want to pay the hefty sum merely for a single hammer blow, not wanting to understanding that they were paying for the experience and knowledge to understand where to land the strike.

[Ruffdaddy]

Some people just don't like to think about i guess. Scares em for some reason

No...some of us have just seen the attempts at automation. The Boeing 737 MAX is actually an example of when an automated system fails and what can actually happen. And that was on a plane that had a pilot trying to correct course.

This is happening in engineering with generative design and topology optimization. It will never replace engineers...it will just force us to adapt to higher output and efficiency because small time consuming portions of the job are now automated. The exact same thing would happen in medicine. You will not reduce the count of drs and nurses...you will just free up their time to focus on what their work really should be. If anyone loses their jobs it's going to be the hospital support staff that isnt a dr or nurse.

[Sean88gt]

My take is that it's not going to work. Because you'll always have the right to represent yourself. The AGI is better at being a lawyer than any human could be. I can imagine just representing yourself, while wearing a bluetooth earpiece. Instant super lawyer. Sounds like sci fi but as we all know they're hard at work on this.

Horseshit. 95% of victory comes in procedure. A pro se doesn't even know what that is, let alone how to structure things within civil or criminal procedure. Go to a county court at law, watch some trials where there defendant is pro se, they get destroyed. So often so, that bigger firms send new attorneys in to handle these cases as the opposing parties as a tune up game of sorts.

The ones I saw who were prepared were still run over. It was usually when an attorney would start working through motions in limine, and the defendant would ask "what the hell is that?" Further, the know-it-alls run the risk of pissing off the judge because they are wasting his/her time.

That doesn't count the courts who suspend all electronics.

He who represents himself has a fool for a client.

More than you would ever know. I would never represent myself, even if it was my area of practice.

When I was young and stupid enough to do so, I represented myself in a custody case. I would never, ever, ever do that again, nor would I recommend. I got fucking lucky, simple as that. That could have ended very, very badly for me.

I read through a child support order of one of my employees last week and had to break it down repeatedly "You have a court order, you don't know shit about the law, so quit pretending you do, you need to get an attorney to re-write a new order which contests your old order, that is the only way you get managing conservatorship, eliminate child support, and avoid potential criminal penalties for violating a court order."

People don't value professional services, think they can handle the situation, and end up taking pipe because they were smart enough to fuck themselves over.

[jewozzy]

Well there we agree. I should've been more specific. 10 years from now, will be the beginning. The final product will have been produced, and then a dissemination period begins. Then it'll become the reality sometime in the following 5 years. So 15 years from now, yeah it's happening.

For some reason everyone always imagines the worst, people being told "Yore fired!!", but they'll just be training less doctors. As the old ones die off and retire, they just won't be replaced with quite as many new ones. That'll continue for yet another 10 years, as the technology gets better and better. Until finally one day, 25-30 years from now, you have 3 doctors that work at a large hospital. If you can call them that.

"Gasp! Who will see the all the patients?!?"

That's what I'm talking about. The automation will see the patients. I've also said nothing about nurses, paramedics, CNA's, etc etc. Although I'd imagine that their numbers will dwindle to some degree as well, even if not quite as much. It's no different than the movie theater projector operator. That used to be a skill, that required apprenticeship. Now a teen in high school double clicks an icon.

I don't know why this is all so hard to imagine, it's pretty much a constant throughout history. Then people always act surprised lol. The company bought new technology that saves them a lot of money. Who'd a thunk it.

Its kind of dry, but this book explains it all really well. I didn't even read it cause I'm something of a tech nerd. I honestly just read it because I don't like the idea of being surprised by this shit.

https://www.amazon.com/Singularity-N.../dp/B000QCSA7C

Nope

[Gasser64]

Some people just don't like to think about i guess. Scares em for some reason

[jluv]

Well there we agree. I should've been more specific. 10 years from now, will be the beginning. The final product will have been produced, and then a dissemination period begins. Then it'll become the reality sometime in the following 5 years. So 15 years from now, yeah it's happening.

For some reason everyone always imagines the worst, people being told "Yore fired!!", but they'll just be training less doctors. As the old ones die off and retire, they just won't be replaced with quite as many new ones. That'll continue for yet another 10 years, as the technology gets better and better. Until finally one day, 25-30 years from now, you have 3 doctors that work at a large hospital. If you can call them that.

"Gasp! Who will see the all the patients?!?"

That's what I'm talking about. The automation will see the patients. I've also said nothing about nurses, paramedics, CNA's, etc etc. Although I'd imagine that their numbers will dwindle to some degree as well, even if not quite as much. It's no different than the movie theater projector operator. That used to be a skill, that required apprenticeship. Now a teen in high school double clicks an icon.

I don't know why this is all so hard to imagine, it's pretty much a constant throughout history. Then people always act surprised lol. The company bought new technology that saves them a lot of money. Who'd a thunk it.

Its kind of dry, but this book explains it all really well. I didn't even read it cause I'm something of a tech nerd. I honestly just read it because I don't like the idea of being surprised by this shit.

https://www.amazon.com/Singularity-N.../dp/B000QCSA7C

Never go full retard, man.

[Gasser64]

You’re out of your mind. Even if something like this happens eventually, it definitely won’t be in the next 10 years.

Well there we agree. I should've been more specific. 10 years from now, will be the beginning. The final product will have been produced, and then a dissemination period begins. Then it'll become the reality sometime in the following 5 years. So 15 years from now, yeah it's happening.

For some reason everyone always imagines the worst, people being told "Yore fired!!", but they'll just be training less doctors. As the old ones die off and retire, they just won't be replaced with quite as many new ones. That'll continue for yet another 10 years, as the technology gets better and better. Until finally one day, 25-30 years from now, you have 3 doctors that work at a large hospital. If you can call them that.

"Gasp! Who will see the all the patients?!?"

That's what I'm talking about. The automation will see the patients. I've also said nothing about nurses, paramedics, CNA's, etc etc. Although I'd imagine that their numbers will dwindle to some degree as well, even if not quite as much. It's no different than the movie theater projector operator. That used to be a skill, that required apprenticeship. Now a teen in high school double clicks an icon.

I don't know why this is all so hard to imagine, it's pretty much a constant throughout history. Then people always act surprised lol. The company bought new technology that saves them a lot of money. Who'd a thunk it.

Its kind of dry, but this book explains it all really well. I didn't even read it cause I'm something of a tech nerd. I honestly just read it because I don't like the idea of being surprised by this shit.

https://www.amazon.com/Singularity-Near-Humans-Transcend-Biology-ebook/dp/B000QCSA7C

[Trip McNeely]

I figured I would throw my college experience in here...I thought college for me at least was a waste of money (Undergrad only). I never went on my intended career path as my degree was set for. I took a different path but it ended up being a nice fit and paid off. I know there's a great argument on experience vs. education. For me, experience paid off. Education was just a piece of paper, but in my industry (Oil & Gas) not a necessity. I had that BS Degree, but when I graduated jobs were very hard to find unless you had a Masters or experience/internship. I worked my ass off in the field and worked my way up from under rigs, to sales, and now work for O&G company as a buyer. Trade schools are great and especially for my industry can open many doors. The only downside is my industry is very demanding and expect to work 365/24/7 in your first years.

[Ruffdaddy]

Since OP's gotten a ton of answers I feel free to hijack.
Anyone gone back for another STEM degree after not doing higher math and other shitty things for 10+ years? I'm kicking around the idea of a MS Chemical Engineering or MS Chemistry (organic, directed toward renewable fuels and plastics), but I fucking hated calculus the first time around. Should I just satisfy myself with some MOOCs or the University of Youtube?

Fuck that...ESPECIALLY chemistry. While a masters is generally easier than an undergrad...chemistry is just really different and complex.

What is your target job after this?

[Ruffdaddy]

You’re out of your mind. Even if something like this happens eventually, it definitely won’t be in the next 10 years.

The only people that think AI will take over are people that dont work with AI...