Florida high school shooting: 20-50 injured

[ceyko]

Curious what y'all think.

1. Guns are not going away - I think in this general group we all agree to that.
2. Parenting/being a kid is not the same as it used to be - even in the 70s, 80s and 90s. Some of us choose to raise our kids a little old school - but even that is tricky with modern society being so nosy.

What is a solution to these kids/people shooting up schools?

I'm of the opinion that it's not going to stop due to parenting and society in general. Personally, I think there is no solution - it has to be handled by faster responses with on-site staff (teachers/admin) who want to be there with a gun. Additionally, I'm not sure if this is a legit call or not - but it would end quicker if the students (MS/HS) swarmed the shooter and were taught a little self defense. Hell, even a group of teachers doing it would end it quicker.

Right now, with the thought process of wait for the police - everyone in a school is just in a shooting gallery until the police show up, figure out a plan and execute. (Note: I'm not FTP'ing - it's the reality, they can only respond so fast) I'd also think that the shootings would be reduced if the spineless shooters knew that any possible target would also be taught to fight back. I'd also be on-board (and encourage it) with teachers/admin/students having no liability for injuries/damage/death to the shooter.

I hate that it has to be this way, but I think the students/teachers/admins need options to handle it without waiting on the police to do so. Details on that can be argued all day long, but that's what I think from a high level.

Anyone have any better ideas? I know nothing will probably happen either way. Shot callers will just blame the guns and work to implement ineffective ways to stop the problems. Just asking for other's thoughts, see if I'm insane or not.

[The King]

Don't schools have airport-style metal detectors at the entrance(s) now? If not install them and post armed individuals at each, which might also be effective against some outsider trying to commit mayhem. Of course too allow those educators who so choose and are licensed to concealed carry inside the building, or as is referred to in Texas to carry on the premises.

[BP]

Don't schools have airport-style metal detectors at the entrance(s) now? If not install them and post armed individuals at each, which might also be effective against some outsider trying to commit mayhem. Of course too allow those educators who so choose and are licensed to concealed carry inside the building, or as is referred to in Texas to carry on the premises.

That's not going to do much good if the shooter is outside during a fire drill.

[SS Junk]

Arm the teachers after training or armed personnel like trained security guards, police or veterans or even citizens. Best deterrent there is. I also would like to know how this fuck got into the building.

[The King]

That's not going to do much good if the shooter is outside during a fire drill.

True, but how many school shootings reported in the past several years have occurred during a fire drill?

[LANTIRN]

Curious what y'all think.

1. Guns are not going away - I think in this general group we all agree to that.
2. Parenting/being a kid is not the same as it used to be - even in the 70s, 80s and 90s. Some of us choose to raise our kids a little old school - but even that is tricky with modern society being so nosy.

What is a solution to these kids/people shooting up schools?

I'm of the opinion that it's not going to stop due to parenting and society in general. Personally, I think there is no solution - it has to be handled by faster responses with on-site staff (teachers/admin) who want to be there with a gun. Additionally, I'm not sure if this is a legit call or not - but it would end quicker if the students (MS/HS) swarmed the shooter and were taught a little self defense. Hell, even a group of teachers doing it would end it quicker.

Right now, with the thought process of wait for the police - everyone in a school is just in a shooting gallery until the police show up, figure out a plan and execute. (Note: I'm not FTP'ing - it's the reality, they can only respond so fast) I'd also think that the shootings would be reduced if the spineless shooters knew that any possible target would also be taught to fight back. I'd also be on-board (and encourage it) with teachers/admin/students having no liability for injuries/damage/death to the shooter.

I hate that it has to be this way, but I think the students/teachers/admins need options to handle it without waiting on the police to do so. Details on that can be argued all day long, but that's what I think from a high level.

Anyone have any better ideas? I know nothing will probably happen either way. Shot callers will just blame the guns and work to implement ineffective ways to stop the problems. Just asking for other's thoughts, see if I'm insane or not.

This is a problem our society could solve, but won't, because it would require parents being parents, personal responsibility, and looking back to our society before school shootings started. There didn't use to be shootings like this even though kids hunted and had access to guns unsupervised. Something (several things) changed in our society in the last 60 to 100 years (I cannot remember the date quoted as to when school shootings became common). My point is, something changed. Since it didn't use to be like this we could go back, but society doesn't want an honest reflection of how fucking stupid we are. And since Americans have always owned guns, guns are not the problem. It is much deeper than a misused tool.

To your swarming point, yes it would work. Flight 93 proves this, but also proves it doesn't gurantee survival. But again certain of have taken responsibility for our own safety by carrying a gun or learning self defense and being aware. Most of society does not accept that personal responsibility. Most would not swarm the gunman most likely. Plus there is the legal liability of teaching kids to put themselves in harms way by doing so, and as soon as one kid was hurt doing that lawyers would be all over the place. So in theory it would work, but since bad guys rarely get swarmed in reality it doesn't work as well.

[Craizie]

Don't schools have airport-style metal detectors at the entrance(s) now? If not install them and post armed individuals at each, which might also be effective against some outsider trying to commit mayhem. Of course too allow those educators who so choose and are licensed to concealed carry inside the building, or as is referred to in Texas to carry on the premises.

Not sure about the metal detectors, but at my school we were not allowed any kind of bag, or even a locker.

[abecx]

This is a problem our society could solve, but won't, because it would require parents being parents, personal responsibility, and looking back to our society before school shootings started. There didn't use to be shootings like this even though kids hunted and had access to guns unsupervised. Something (several things) changed in our society in the last 60 to 100 years (I cannot remember the date quoted as to when school shootings became common). My point is, something changed. Since it didn't use to be like this we could go back, but society doesn't want an honest reflection of how fucking stupid we are. And since Americans have always owned guns, guns are not the problem. It is much deeper than a misused tool.

To your swarming point, yes it would work. Flight 93 proves this, but also proves it doesn't gurantee survival. But again certain of have taken responsibility for our own safety by carrying a gun or learning self defense and being aware. Most of society does not accept that personal responsibility. Most would not swarm the gunman most likely. Plus there is the legal liability of teaching kids to put themselves in harms way by doing so, and as soon as one kid was hurt doing that lawyers would be all over the place. So in theory it would work, but since bad guys rarely get swarmed in reality it doesn't work as well.

To me the answer after much reflection is rather simple. We went from single income families to both parent having to work just to get by. We went from families that could have a parent around at all times for all activities truly helping their children grow to parents that come home absolutely exhausted from work with no patience to help their children. The gap between the middle class and the rich is just too astronomical. All middle class families should be single income. You cant teach responsibility if you're never emotionally there.

This is not to pull the burden from parents, but we are a society of overworked and over stressed Americans. When I go overseas to Europe it would be easy to believe that these people are just lazy, but they aren't, they just dont see work as the only thing in life as many Americans have to because of the cost of living here.

I'm not saying that other countries have it better, simply that the mindset is totally different, family first. Here family first commonly means putting food on the table and making sure there is a roof over the head and thats about it. Its not a knock on parents parenting skills either, just an observation.

[jewozzy]

Y'all keep saying this is the parents fault but this kid lost both of his parents. His mom a few months back. That could have been his trigger. Or it may have been his parents, you never know. The truth is this is a mental issue.

You can't always blame "parenting" because a kid goes crazy. You see it daily siblings that were raised the exact same 1 is successful and the other is in prison...

[The King]

Y'all keep saying this is the parents fault but this kid lost both of his parents. His mom a few months back. That could have been his trigger. Or it may have been his parents, you never know. The truth is this is a mental issue.

You can't always blame "parenting" because a kid goes crazy. You see it daily siblings that were raised the exact same 1 is successful and the other is in prison...

Some kids simply turn out bad, sometimes either by their upbringing or by their own choosing. The one thing the 'rent or 'rents must be held accountable for is, if they keep firearms in the home, did they do everything reasonable to prevent their kid from accessing them without their approval or permission. If a kid manages to overcome such access precautions and carries a firearm into a school, it's by their own choosing and they are nothing other than a common thief at that point.

[LANTIRN]

Y'all keep saying this is the parents fault but this kid lost both of his parents. His mom a few months back. That could have been his trigger. Or it may have been his parents, you never know. The truth is this is a mental issue.

You can't always blame "parenting" because a kid goes crazy. You see it daily siblings that were raised the exact same 1 is successful and the other is in prison...

It isn't just parenting, there has been a drastic shift in our society that has made people think mass murder is an ok response to their problems. There have always been kids losing one or both parents, bad and good parents, bullies, econimic problems, depression, crazy people, etc etc. The solution did not use to be mass murder at work or school or church. Yes some people would murder the bully or individual they thought responsible for whatever, some to drugs or crime and end up in jail, some deal with it and move one and become better people. At some point that changed and mass shootings became common.

[The King]

Simplistic opinion I realize, but it's a guaranteed means for an otherwise mentally effed-up nobody to get their moment of fame under the now all-important spotlight of social media.

[ceyko]

You see it daily siblings that were raised the exact same 1 is successful and the other is in prison...

Ya you're correct on all of it - sometimes it's just the kid. I think 1 good / 1 bad thing happens when same parenting happens for both kids. Each kid has to be different - sucks, as I'm guilty of same type of parenting for both of mine too a lot of times.

[BLAKE]

Simplistic opinion I realize, but it's a guaranteed means for an otherwise mentally effed-up nobody to get their moment of fame under the now all-important spotlight of social media.

I agree and go one step further.

The internet in general brings out the best and worst of us. Horrible things have always happened, but we now get instant, 24 hour coverage of everything that is accessible everywhere. So on one hand it feels like things are generally worse because we hear more about it, and then sometimes things actually get worse because of that coverage/access. It's a nasty feedback loop.

[LANTIRN]

Simplistic opinion I realize, but it's a guaranteed means for an otherwise mentally effed-up nobody to get their moment of fame under the now all-important spotlight of social media.

I think this does play a large role, unfortunately.