Scary stuff-parents, you need to be paying attention

[mstng86]

When a school becomes a business the school is going to be more concerned with the bottom line than the actual education of the kids.. That is the way business is. Every company I have ever worked for was more concerned with shareholders' value than employees or customers. And those are not the type of people I want educating my kids.

To be fair Chili, you just described the school system in this paragraph. IMO.

[Chili]

Look how well your Grandparents did with their 'crappy' education. Less 'educated' yet still did great for themselves.

Look how many of our students can't graduate with the new 'crappy education'. More 'educated' (the 40% that graduate), but dumb as rocks.

Which would I put my bet on to have a better life? Do I really need to answer?

How well did they do? My grandfather was a carpenter his whole life and never acheived more than lower middle class. My grandmother worked at a bakery part time. I would hardly say they did great for themselves. They survived with the skills they had.

So based on your argument we should just try to go back to how everythign was in the early 20th century.. That will surely solve all of our problems.

[Grape]

those that want to do something with their life do it, unfortunately the portion of those going through school who don't want to do anything is getting to be a rather large number.

[Chili]

I am with Chili on this, the education being given isn't so much the problem, as the initiative by shitty parents on making sure their children follow through and receive that education. My parents were a big part of me getting good grades, and insisting that I was raised with good values and morals. That's not the school system's job, it's the parents, but both do go hand in hand.

I absolutely agree with that. Everyone is very quick to blame the schools, teachers and system but you don't find many that blame themselves (as parents) or the students themselves. I went to the same high school, in the same district at the same time with my peers. Some became doctors, some have had a great deal of success with business, others scrape by and some are bums. How did the same education system succeed by producing a future millionaire but at the same time fail at producing the bum.

[sc281]

When a school becomes a business the school is going to be more concerned with the bottom line than the actual education of the kids.. That is the way business is. Every company I have ever worked for was more concerned with shareholders' value than employees or customers. And those are not the type of people I want educating my kids.

With private schools come competition. Me putting my child and money into said school is a choice. (Unlike Public School)

If I am not satisfied with the quality of my childs education, my child and my money go elsewhere. (unlike Public School)

Because of this, bad Private Schools die on the vine while good Private schools flourish. (unlike Public School)

[Chili]

To be fair Chili, you just described the school system in this paragraph. IMO.

There are similarities, admittedly, but it is much more slanted in the corporate world.

[Broncojohnny]

First of all, I think the "crappy" education system we have in this country is mostly a myth spread by people with ulterior motives. Teacher's unions for example.

Secondly, the idea that if I pay school taxes on property, I am somehow "giving back" for what I consumed is absurd. I used the public school system for 18 years, then I pay for the next 60 years with a total outlay that would let me buy education at any private as school as well as Ivy league college tuition? The vast majority of revenue in urban areas comes from commercial properties, exactly what are they paying for?

Fact is, the school situation is a classic example of what happens when you give someone a handout. People who pay taxes support scumbags who don't. Those scumbags then send their kids to school for free and don't give a shit whether they pass or fail. The kids suffer and don't get the opportunity that they should. Fact is, the scumbags should have a stake in the game just like I should.

[sc281]

How well did they do? My grandfather was a carpenter his whole life and never acheived more than lower middle class. My grandmother worked at a bakery part time. I would hardly say they did great for themselves. They survived with the skills they had.

So based on your argument we should just try to go back to how everythign was in the early 20th century.. That will surely solve all of our problems.

My Great Grandfather and Great Grandmother ( Using Great as an example, because I am a generation younger than you) ran a Farm and raised four children with a 3rd and 5th grade education.

High School and College Grads nowadays can't seem to get off their butts and find work despite their 'education'.

[Chili]

With private schools come competition. Me putting my child and money into said school is a choice. (Unlike Public School)

If I am not satisfied with the quality of my childs education, my child and my money go elsewhere. (unlike Public School)

Because of this, bad Private Schools die on the vine while good Private schools flourish. (unlike Public School)

But the lifecycle for that to happen will be too slow and too much damage will be done in the mean time.

I'm not saying that privatization of the school system flat won't work, just saying it's easy to yell "privatize!"

[Broncojohnny]

High School and College Grads nowadays can't seem to get off their butts and find work despite their 'education'.

If the economy were left to its own devices, they would be running farms. Interesting how that works.

[mstng86]

There are similarities, admittedly, but it is much more slanted in the corporate world.

When the schools are more worried about getting butts in the seats to fill a quota for state funding, there is a problem. They shouldn't have to be worrying about getting money. That shouldn't be their priority, but unfortunately that is todays reality. The schools will put off to the last minute to close these days. They contemplate the risk of getting the money for the attendance over the welfare of the kids and the parents dropping them off.

What I am saying is, people that run schools should not have to worry about money. Their main function is to educate, and the way the system is setup now, the money is more important to keep the school running.

[Chili]

High School and College Grads nowadays can't seem to get off their butts and find work despite their 'education'.

But to Silverback's point, is that a problem with the educational system, or the kids themselves?

[Chili]

When the schools are more worried about getting butts in the seats to fill a quota for state funding, there is a problem. They shouldn't have to be worrying about getting money. That shouldn't be their priority, but unfortunately that is todays reality. The schools will put off to the last minute to close these days. They contemplate the risk of getting the money for the attendance over the welfare of the kids and the parents dropping them off.

What I am saying is, people that run schools should not have to worry about money. Their main function is to educate, and the way the system is setup now, the money is more important to keep the school running.

That's an entirely different issue that I don't disagree with.

[juiceweezl]

New Stadium in Allen ISD was a cool $65 million or so. You should look at the cost of the new Prosper High School. Fuck, go look at the building! It's absurd! Though I understand some of it was private funding, the old high school was only around 5 years old and now sits empty.

Cutting football programs is shooting yourself in the foot. That's a lot of revenue. There has been wasteful spending for decades. This news isn't exactly groundbreaking. Everyone saw it coming. If the govt has proven anything, it's that it can't run anything lean, or efficient.

The Prosper high school is absurd, but I think they funded it with their own tax base and a ton of private money. I know Deion gave a large chunk of coin to their athletics program too. Their baseball field is field turf as well, so they don't have to worry about rainy conditions, etc. They have an unbelievable setup at that school. However, if you think that's overdone, cruise north about another 8 miles up 289 and look at the new Celina high school. It's crazy nice and large, and I think they only have 350-400 kids in the school.

For those of you bashing the school system and teachers and ragging on the quality of education, hold off just a bit. The current system is flawed, and I agree that private sector would be much better for managing education. However, don't lump all teachers and educators together. My wife teaches, and is in her 14th year spread across 3 districts and 2 states. She probably logs close to 60 hours per week between after school tutoring, team planning, and grading papers at the house. There are a TON of teachers like here out there. Her students perform better because of that effort as well. The problem is that the current system doesn't reward her outstanding performance. The crappy teachers at her school make just as much, and the students in those classes suffer.

You can't tell me that the gym teacher should make as much salary as a math teacher for example. A lot of people gripe about teachers being underpaid, but many (my wife included) will tell you that isn't the case. If you factor in that they have 2 months a year off, then the pay turns out to be fairly decent in many districts (she's in FISD now). Now if you made say 20% of pay based off performance, then she'd max out and other teachers would wash out. Successful teachers win, the students win, and the districts win by attracting better prospective teachers.

Oh, and for the record, if you really want to fix the education system, then start with the No Child Left Behind crap.

[sc281]

Fact is, the school situation is a classic example of what happens when you give someone a handout. People who pay taxes support scumbags who don't. Those scumbags then send their kids to school for free and don't give a shit whether they pass or fail. The kids suffer and don't get the opportunity that they should. Fact is, the scumbags should have a stake in the game just like I should.

Agreed.