He has a toy truck! Shoot him! FTP!

[Cobraman]

The cop wasn't white. Looks more Hispanic to me

[KBScobravert]

I would like to know if it was a 3rd burst sear gun given to the PD. It is possible he had the weapon in "BURST" with his finger on the trigger and let a few rounds fly not aiming, hence hitting the only person in that scenario that didn't pose a threat to anyone.

Negligent Discharge and the officer should be held accountable just as if I thought I was doing the right thing and accidently shot someone.

But fuck, out of all the timing in the world, a dumb ass white cop shoots a unarmed nonhostile threat black guy laying on his back with his hands high in the sky and he wasn't even the reported threat to begin with. Way to go!

[LANTIRN]

I have never said cops should not be held accountable. Please show me where I have ever said that?

You gonna answer my questions and posts responding to you above or not?

You say the cop in this instance here should not be charged, but why? This cop in this story needs to be held accountable. The white guy with th toy (mistaken for a gun being waved around while yelling) was the percieved threat. I understand how that could have been tbreatening and percieved wrong. Trying to give him the benefit of the doubt there because the sivery truck pointd at him can look like a gun, I get that. Purposeful or neglignt discharge, there is no reason for him to have shot the black guy who was cooperating on the ground, when the white guh was the obvious percieved threat. That what I have a specific problem with here and you don't want him charged. I think the entire incident appears to be handled poorly, but even giving him the benifit of doubt I can't excuse shooting an unarmed ccoperative black man when the "armed" white man was the treat.

[Cum Dumpster]

Oh he was fired by Quinlan, hired by West Tawakoni, fired by them, hired by Hunt County and what cost him from there was he gave his squad keys to his gf when drunk and she slammed it (with him in it) to a light pole because she was lit as well and state boys found out. At any point in time police could have stopped him and blacklisted him. Could have prevented him from EVER touching a badge again. How many times does that happen?

Honest question there Paladin. No jabs. How many times does that happen? Bad cop gets fired, goes one town over, gets rehired does the same shit again?

If I make it to FW, I'll take you up on it. I'd enjoy a ride along. It's on my list of things I want to do as I honestly do respect the occupation and was going to do law enforcement when I got out. I blacked out on the obstacle course set up by Killeen PD when I found out I was being Med boarded.

It's why I hold officers to a standard of the constitution and the law. They are the enforcers of the law and should not only meet the standard but exceed it, like the NCO's I know and trained under.

I am too high up to do a ride along. My explorer is unmarked but police package. It is fun though!

And to your question, it used to happen a LOT! The TCOLE licensing rules have changed in recent years to try and prevent it from happening. Does it still happen? Yeah, probably so. In your scenario (and ones like it) it should NEVER happen. I can cite a bunch of former FWPD officers who were not allowed to hold a state peace officer license after they left FWPD because we followed the rules and tagged their licenses as being "dishonorable." I have testified in a hearing where a sergeant who stole some OT under my command tried to appeal my decision to label his termination as "dishonorable" and he lost. I have been there and done that dude!

I hold officers to a high standard. It is high AND reasonable though. Unless you admit that police officers should not go to jail for a mistake, then I will call you extreme. You are unreasonable. That may be where we are differing and will never see eye to eye.

[Cum Dumpster]

And do you go to a plastic surgeon or do they come to you and force the interaction? Remind me. Can I be in my car and have a plastic surgeon come up to me with a gun and tell me to step out of my car because he wants to look around? Or do I have to look him up, make an appointment, go to his office, and do all of that good stuff?

I'm wondering, which occupation (pilot or cop) thinks it needs special protections to make touching them a crime, special laws exempting them from other laws, more laws that make their dogs worth more than your life?

I mean, if you want to compare being a cop to a soldier or a plastic surgeon, you're not going to like it.

Find me a cop who had no right to be involved in the interaction and we can discuss. You may not like that discussion.

I compare a person making a mistake, like a surgeon, electrician, bus driver, cop, and why is it only the cop should be charged with a crime in your world if someone is injured or dies?

[Forever_frost]

I agree with you that officers should obey the law when not responding to a call. I think it is very wrong that the guy you mention got rehired by another LE agency. He would not have been rehired by FWPD. How's that?

I was serious about buying you lunch. If you are ever in FW we can go joyriding in my city Explorer. It is quick and I can weave in and out of traffic like crazy!

Oh he was fired by Quinlan, hired by West Tawakoni, fired by them, hired by Hunt County and what cost him from there was he gave his squad keys to his gf when drunk and she slammed it (with him in it) to a light pole because she was lit as well and state boys found out. At any point in time police could have stopped him and blacklisted him. Could have prevented him from EVER touching a badge again. How many times does that happen?

Honest question there Paladin. No jabs. How many times does that happen? Bad cop gets fired, goes one town over, gets rehired does the same shit again?

If I make it to FW, I'll take you up on it. I'd enjoy a ride along. It's on my list of things I want to do as I honestly do respect the occupation and was going to do law enforcement when I got out. I blacked out on the obstacle course set up by Killeen PD when I found out I was being Med boarded.

It's why I hold officers to a standard of the constitution and the law. They are the enforcers of the law and should not only meet the standard but exceed it, like the NCO's I know and trained under.

[Forever_frost]

I haven't even gone down the road of how many contacts police officers make every day that do not result in any burden on the taxpayers compared to the ones that do.

I would be interested to know which occupation has the highest level of mistakes per incident they COULD make a mistake. Plastic surgeons, maybe?

I wonder how many times the A-10 pilot fired his weapon in anger compared to the time he killed all those British soldiers.

And do you go to a plastic surgeon or do they come to you and force the interaction? Remind me. Can I be in my car and have a plastic surgeon come up to me with a gun and tell me to step out of my car because he wants to look around? Or do I have to look him up, make an appointment, go to his office, and do all of that good stuff?

I'm wondering, which occupation (pilot or cop) thinks it needs special protections to make touching them a crime, special laws exempting them from other laws, more laws that make their dogs worth more than your life?

I mean, if you want to compare being a cop to a soldier or a plastic surgeon, you're not going to like it.

[Cum Dumpster]

Nope, not responding to calls. I have no problem with cops responding to calls speeding. When they aren't, when they're just cruising around, weaving in and out of traffic, riding the bumper of the car in front, changing lanes without turn signals, hitting off ramps without signaling, so on and so forth. Basically things that anyone else would have been pulled over for.

Yes, if you're doing this and you're on duty and not on a call, you should be cited. Same as if I'm working and I"m in a company vehicle and I'm doing this you would cite me. If you're on a call, cool. If not, you should follow the rules of the road.

And I know of an officer who got drunk and drove his patrol car up a guide wire of a light pole and got fired and was hired by another department. Police departments dont' blacklist bad cops. This cop was a bad cop. He beat handcuffed guys. He routinely drank and drove. Hell, he handed me his service weapon because I ASKED.

I agree with you that officers should obey the law when not responding to a call. I think it is very wrong that the guy you mention got rehired by another LE agency. He would not have been rehired by FWPD. How's that?

I was serious about buying you lunch. If you are ever in FW we can go joyriding in my city Explorer. It is quick and I can weave in and out of traffic like crazy!

[Cum Dumpster]

I haven't even gone down the road of how many contacts police officers make every day that do not result in any burden on the taxpayers compared to the ones that do.

I would be interested to know which occupation has the highest level of mistakes per incident they COULD make a mistake. Plastic surgeons, maybe?

I wonder how many times the A-10 pilot fired his weapon in anger compared to the time he killed all those British soldiers.

[Forever_frost]

Nope. But you said cops need to be given tickets. You did not say cops on duty responding to calls should be given tickets. Come on now, you are going off into extreme FTP land now. (I did not say Frost was a FTP himself, I said he was going off into FTP land and that can be done by people who are not FTP types). Yet, he may be going there pretty quickly if he admits he thinks cops should be issued citations in patrol vehicles while on duty. Jeeez!

There is no way an officer will ever be given a ticket for a class C misdemeanor while driving on duty. I know of an officer who got arrested out off his patrol car for DWI. Will that work?

Nope, not responding to calls. I have no problem with cops responding to calls speeding. When they aren't, when they're just cruising around, weaving in and out of traffic, riding the bumper of the car in front, changing lanes without turn signals, hitting off ramps without signaling, so on and so forth. Basically things that anyone else would have been pulled over for.

Yes, if you're doing this and you're on duty and not on a call, you should be cited. Same as if I'm working and I"m in a company vehicle and I'm doing this you would cite me. If you're on a call, cool. If not, you should follow the rules of the road.

And I know of an officer who got drunk and drove his patrol car up a guide wire of a light pole and got fired and was hired by another department. Police departments dont' blacklist bad cops. This cop was a bad cop. He beat handcuffed guys. He routinely drank and drove. Hell, he handed me his service weapon because I ASKED.

[Cum Dumpster]

Did you get it while in uniform in your vehicle?

Nope. But you said cops need to be given tickets. You did not say cops on duty responding to calls should be given tickets. Come on now, you are going off into extreme FTP land now. (I did not say Frost was a FTP himself, I said he was going off into FTP land and that can be done by people who are not FTP types). Yet, he may be going there pretty quickly if he admits he thinks cops should be issued citations in patrol vehicles while on duty. Jeeez!

There is no way an officer will ever be given a ticket for a class C misdemeanor while driving on duty. I know of an officer who got arrested out off his patrol car for DWI. Will that work?

[Cum Dumpster]

False:

All of these things were true at the time. At time time he was doing nothing wrong, was a social worker and was trying to help the cop while yelling no one had a weapon.

And you're right. He won't be charged with a crime, cops are a protected class. He won't be fired, will not lose his ability to carry a firearm and will suffer no penalty but the taxpayer will pay out. He learns nothing, the taxpayer is on the hook and the band goes marching along.

And the A-10 pilot did not get charged with a crime, did he?

The officer made a mistake, no doubt. I have said that many times dude. There was nothing criminal about it. It will cost his agency and the taxpayers a lot of money. Its terrible, tragic, and unfortunately the cost of doing business when humans make mistakes.

The officer made a mistake, the A-10 pilot made a mistake, the electrician in my scenario made a mistake, the bus driver made a mistake. None of them committed a crime in my opinion!

[Cum Dumpster]

You said if you lose your radio on a call you don't. Which is it?

Police officers and the police department SHOULD pay for their own misconduct and mistakes.

So should a soldier pay for their own mistakes? I say the government does pay for a soldiers mistakes, just like the bus company pays for a drivers mistakes, an electrical contractor pays for his electricians mistakes, and the city (or agency) pays for an officers mistakes.

Your argument is sounding very odd. Of course the PD should pay for an officers mistakes.

BTW, I know of many instances where an officers misconduct caused him to be fired, convicted of a felony, and it didn't cost the taxpayers a dime. Wanna hear the details?

[Forever_frost]

If I showed you my DL record where I have a speeding ticket on my record, will you meet for lunch? I am paying. I got it in 2013. I had been a cop for 26 years at the time.

And if I do show you, will you stop acting like it doesn't happen?

Hell, a police captain got arrested for DWI not too long ago by other cops! How crazy! The thin blue line is alive and well, uh, wait, maybe not so much anymore! Ahhhhhh!

Did you get it while in uniform in your vehicle?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/02/01/woman-stops-florida-cop-for-speeding-the-reason-i-pulled-you-over-today/?utm_term=.f9467b4626a4

A few years ago, the Sun-Sentinel, a newspaper in South Florida, won a Pulitzer Prize for its investigation into off-duty officers speeding on the roadways.

The investigation, which analyzed toll data, determined that nearly 800 officers from several departments and agencies were reaching excessive speeds, sometimes hitting 130 mph.

[Forever_frost]

You may be arrested for this. You were so negligent to fire off a single round it may be a criminal offense. Your scenario does not have you having any right to fire off a single round, though. The officer in this scenario has the right to fire a round (or more if necessary) if they feel justified. In the case we are discussing, the officer made a mistake. He was wrong.

You may not like it, but officers can do things you as a private civilian cannot. I can fire at someone I think is a criminal and as long as I have a reasonable argument that I was justified to fire (at the time I pulled the trigger) then I am not criminally liable. I may be civilly liable if I was wrong. I may get fired if I was wrong.

You cannot go to a future time and enter facts into evidence, like the fact that the man who got shot was a social worker, or was doing nothing wrong, or was trying to help the cop (all things that are true now that we know the facts), or anything else and make the incident a criminal act. It is solely based upon the facts known to the officer at the time he fired his weapon. This is why all normal and decent people want to hear all the facts before we pass judgment. Please refer to the running joke for a few people about "we didn't hear the officers side of the story!"

Imagine a cop shooting someone who had a warrant and a "violent past criminal history" but he had no knowledge of that until a few hours after he shot the guy? Can we then justify the shooting based on those facts the officer did not know? Of course not! So you can't base your opinion of the shooting on things you have learned since the shooting and that the cop didn't know.

I will reiterate. I think this cop screwed up. I think he should not have fired his weapon. I do NOT think he should be charged with a crime. Very simple.

False:

All of these things were true at the time. At time time he was doing nothing wrong, was a social worker and was trying to help the cop while yelling no one had a weapon.

And you're right. He won't be charged with a crime, cops are a protected class. He won't be fired, will not lose his ability to carry a firearm and will suffer no penalty but the taxpayer will pay out. He learns nothing, the taxpayer is on the hook and the band goes marching along.