CHL Fail

[Sean88gt]

Actually, the executive branch cannot create an agency according to the constitution unless it's directly related to his very few powers. Congress can only create agencies to further their 18 enumerated powers.

The Constitution is clear.

All firearms legislation is unconstitutional. From the NFA to concealed carry permits, it's unconstitutional.

I never said they were created by the President, re-read what I said.

The Constitution is vague as fuck, you're interpreting my point to clarity, but it isn't, at all, and has sliding definitions/applications/interpretations/applications.

And if you're going to posit something as broad as "all X is unconstitutional," be prepared to back that up. How is it? Why is it? How do you speak to the Supreme Court upholding and/or not even taking up a case/piece of legislation?

[Tremor14]

I never said they were created by the President, re-read what I said.

The Constitution is vague as fuck, you're interpretation my point to clarity, but it isn't, at all, and has sliding definitions/applications/interpretations/applications.

And if you're going to posit something as broad as "all X is unconstitutional," be prepared to back that up. How is it? Why is it? How do you speak to the Supreme Court upholding and/or not even taking up a case/piece of legislation?

#full circle

-trollin for content

[Tremor14]

applications x2

[soap]

Lololololololololololol. Never get old.

[Tremor14]

actually it only gets older. it's 13 years old at this point. lol. i would take another case to have that youth back.

alot of my threats wouldnt be so idle if naynay was still naynay :/

[Gasser64]

Because your demographic has three times the number of criminals of all others?

Dun dun duuuunnnn....

[Forever_frost]

I never said they were created by the President, re-read what I said.

The Constitution is vague as fuck, you're interpreting my point to clarity, but it isn't, at all, and has sliding definitions/applications/interpretations/applications.

And if you're going to posit something as broad as "all X is unconstitutional," be prepared to back that up. How is it? Why is it? How do you speak to the Supreme Court upholding and/or not even taking up a case/piece of legislation?

Sure, I can back it up:

Section 8. The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defense and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;
To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;
To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;
To establish Post Offices and post Roads;
To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;
To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;
To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;
To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
To provide and maintain a Navy;
To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;
To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, forthe Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;

And To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

Now, if it's not an enumerated power, it belongs to the states according to the clear writing of the Founders. If it's not an enumerated power, they cannot grant the executive power to create an agency as the executive is the enforcement arm. The judicial lacks oversight on much. I can provide you a list of things they are permitted to hear on if you like.

[Forever_frost]

actually it only gets older. it's 13 years old at this point. lol. i would take another case to have that youth back.

alot of my threats wouldnt be so idle if naynay was still naynay :/

Wait, you're a threat? Since when?

[Tremor14]

*yawn

[CexMashean]

Threatening? lol.
I, too, remember high school and chest thumping.

[Forever_frost]

Threatening? lol.
I, too, remember high school and chest thumping.

I thought he was someone we kept around for the lols. I have yet to feel threatened by someone who handles pipe for a living. My doctor does that too and I never feel threatened when she's checking my stuff.

[Gasser64]

Then you have flat out unconstitutional actions like creating the EPA, firearm regulations, DEA, ATF, DHS, Dep of Education, Dep of Energy, Dep of labor....

Don't you like being called an "extremist" just because you want them to hold to the constitution? Hold to the letter of the law?

The Constitution is vague as fuck...

Its my belief, along with many others, that it was intended to be. The libtards are always boo hooing because they can't get their way, cause that pesky constitution is just too broad and general. 'its not worded right!! its not specific enough!! Waaahhh!!'

Which translates to, its not specific enough so that we can circumvent it. For example, the right to bear arms, is the right to bear arms. Don't like it? Go. Fuck. Your. Self. Move somewhere else. We don't give a fuck. This is my interpretation of its "vagueness". In my mind, I keep going back to "Its a republic, not a 'democracy'. If you don't like the rules of the republic, then this republic may not be the place for you. No one is keeping you here, we wouldn't do that. Its not our way. But if you want to stay, thems the rules right there in print. FYI none of this is directed at you, this is just the shit that goes through my head when libs start talking about some of this stuff.

.

alot of my threats wouldnt be so idle if naynay was still naynay :/

e-thugin' it up. We got a badass over here. Nobody ever was, or would be the least bit worried about any sort of threat from you. You realize all these guys are armed too the teeth, right? Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they would/should from me either. Then again, its not really my style.

[Forever_frost]

I'd also like to point out that our founders knew about full auto weapons and didn't have an issue with them when they wrote the second.

[Sean88gt]

Sure, I can back it up:

Section 8. The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defense and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;
To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;
To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;
To establish Post Offices and post Roads;
To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;
To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;
To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;
To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
To provide and maintain a Navy;
To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;
To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, forthe Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;

And To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

Now, if it's not an enumerated power, it belongs to the states according to the clear writing of the Founders. If it's not an enumerated power, they cannot grant the executive power to create an agency as the executive is the enforcement arm. The judicial lacks oversight on much. I can provide you a list of things they are permitted to hear on if you like.

"General Welfare" is massively broad.

The Commerce Clause is the most pervasive power our government has. Prior to US v. Lopez, the gov't was hammer down on saying that "everything is commerce". The SCOTUS hit the brakes on that case, but the law (Gun-Free School Zones Act) was rewritten to regulate the possession of guns because they were a product of commerce, and thus, became regulate-able through the Constitution.

And then you get into the "necessary and proper" clause, which again, creates a term that provides massive deferential authority to the gov't.

The clear writing of the founders isn't clear at all.

As to the bolded part, you're wrong. There is 200+ years of history to say you're wrong. You may not like it, I may not like it, but at the end of the day, they have created and crafted laws, and navigated the Constitution to make new laws, create laws, etc. The states rights argument simply doesn't hold up.

Don't you like being called an "extremist" just because you want them to hold to the constitution? Hold to the letter of the law?

It has various types of interpretation, so ask 10 people and you'll get 10 different ways to "hold to the constitution".

Its my belief, along with many others, that it was intended to be. The libtards are always boo hooing because they can't get their way, cause that pesky constitution is just too broad and general. 'its not worded right!! its not specific enough!! Waaahhh!!'

Are you daft? They have gotten their way. For a century. And they continue to do so. The republicans, frankly, fucking suck at politics. They are caught in a constant battle of rope-a-dope and the "what's on your shirt" gets them every single time.

Which translates to, its not specific enough so that we can circumvent it. For example, the right to bear arms, is the right to bear arms. Don't like it? Go. Fuck. Your. Self. Move somewhere else. We don't give a fuck. This is my interpretation of its "vagueness". In my mind, I keep going back to "Its a republic, not a 'democracy'. If you don't like the rules of the republic, then this republic may not be the place for you. No one is keeping you here, we wouldn't do that. Its not our way. But if you want to stay, thems the rules right there in print. FYI none of this is directed at you, this is just the shit that goes through my head when libs start talking about some of this stuff.

We have the right to bear arms. Felons don't, and I'm cool with that. Some types have been regulated, and while I think that sucks, it falls under the necessary and proper provision, because of that pesky general welfare...

Any while the republic concept is fantastic, it has largely been lost and will likely never be attained again. I don't disagree with the "don't like, hit the bricks" thought, but it's just not 2015 'Murica.

I'd also like to point out that our founders knew about full auto weapons and didn't have an issue with them when they wrote the second.

The Belton Flintlock? Not really a full on machine gun. But again, America in 2015 is not America in 1776. We are fucking dumb compared to that time frame. There was a seemingly a desire for intelligence and feeding of the brain (as a whole), where now, the desire is to be a fucking brain-stem, because stupidity is cool.

[The King]

This thread needs more naynay, more kowbell, or both.