9 dead in Waco

[phaux]

I see many many lawsuits in Waco's future....

[HarrisonTX]

Heard there was a video, can't find it.

Was told it showed the bikers running for cover while cops stormed the restaurant with rifles.

Solid post man.

[Gtracer]

LOL

Weapon breakdown so far is this:
118 Handguns
1 Ak-47
157 Knives
43 others

Big difference than the 1000+ originally quoted by the police.

Exaggerated weapons claim, exaggerated claims against who was involved...i.e. 172 people charged with org. crime
I expect some wrongful arrest charges, lawsuits coming from patrons/Twin Peaks unless the LEO’s can prove they informed the business directly related to this incident and that everyone involved was involved with these groups.

I have heard stories about bikers in general being pulled over and what not...though no first hand proof

[bcoop]

I see many many lawsuits in Waco's future....

Yep. The whole thing has been fishy from the start.

[71chevellejohn]

Wait, so jade helm is really in waco??

[Gear_Jammer]

I see many many lawsuits in Waco's future....

This article was posted on Texas Lawyer's website today. I don't know how the issues will be decided by the courts, but I am 100% certain that there's going to be a fair amount of cases filed by the time it's all over with on this.

Potential Liability Issues in Deadly Twin Peaks Shootings

When unrest between rival motorcycle gangs exploded in a hail of deadly gunfire at a Twin Peaks restaurant in Waco this past weekend, many were surprised and disturbed to hear reports that the restaurant's managers previously refused to cooperate with police in their efforts to protect the public by addressing the escalating incidents of violence at the same location.

In all, nine people were killed and 18 were wounded in one of the single deadliest shooting incidents in Texas history. Corporate leadership at Twin Peaks took the wise (though perhaps belated) step of revoking the Waco location's franchise on Monday. Regardless, if local law enforcement's offer to help curb the problem was ignored, then the owner may face substantial legal liability.

The story of management's reckless conduct combined with the explosion of war-like violence in the hometown of Baylor University has been shocking to both the state and nation. Unfortunately, there have been several recent incidents where restaurant chains have made the business decision to attract crowds of dangerous patrons while deliberately avoiding security or off-duty police presence—not just to save money—but for fear of hurting sales. The simple math is that bigger crowds mean bigger sales, assuming there is no legal liability.

The owner of the Twin Peaks is denying any previous lack of cooperation with law enforcement, but Waco police officials say the restaurant's managers pretty much made it clear that, unlike motorcycle gangs, police officers were not welcome at the establishment.
Waco police Sgt. Patrick Swanton stated in a press conference that the fatal shootings could have been prevented if the restaurant had been willing to work with the police, describing the owner's post-shooting claims of cooperation by saying, "That statement is a complete fabrication. That is not true."

The fact that the Waco location was a hot spot for gang violence is a surprise to most of us, but it was apparently no secret in and around Waco. Twin Peaks' "Bike Night" promotion had consistently drawn large crowds of bikers who were involved in a growing series of confrontations requiring police intervention. There were 18 uniformed SWAT officers and four state agents sitting in marked cars outside the restaurant before the shooting began, but news reports say the restaurant's managers refused to let the police enter even as the situation was escalating.

Witnesses reported that a fight erupted inside the restaurant before spilling into the parking lot, with gang members firing their weapons and assaulting each other with knives, clubs, fists and chains. Current reports are that no innocent bystanders were injured and that the all of the deceased were rival gang members.

What Is the Liability?

Generally, the owner of a business is not liable for the acts of third-party criminals in Texas. Since the Texas Supreme Court's Timberwalk decision in 1998, Texas courts have imposed a heightened (and difficult) duty standard, requiring detailed evidence of "specific crimes on or near the premises" that are stringently similar, recent, and well-known such that the defendant knew or had reason to know of an unreasonable and foreseeable risk of harm. In the 2000s, many cases involving premises liability for criminal acts of a third party in Texas were disposed of by judges, both prior to and during trial, based on the legal issues of foreseeability and duty.

In its 2010 decision in Del Lago Partners, the Texas Supreme Court looked at whether a premises owner may be held responsible for criminal acts in the absence of specific evidence of prior crimes, holding that "the nature and character of the premises can be a factor" supporting foreseeability, and that "criminal conduct is sometimes foreseeable because of immediately preceding conduct." In other words, the type of business being run, the customer being catered to, and the situation on the premises in the period immediately preceding the criminal act are important to the analysis.
With reports of earlier violent gang confrontations at the Waco Twin Peaks and more than 20 uniformed police officers sitting in the parking lot when the shootings began, it may be challenging to contend in court that no one in management had a reason to know of an unreasonable and foreseeable risk immediately preceding the attack.

Twin Peaks may be asked to answer questions about the economics of "Bike Night," the restaurant's role in attracting and permitting the dangerous and volatile situation; and why local managers wouldn't allow police inside while the restaurant was packed with rival motorcycle gangs. The parent company also may be asked about its knowledge of the prior problems at this or other locations, and whether reasonable corporate safeguards might have prevented the local franchisee and the biker situation from getting so far out of control.

While the civil and criminal conclusions to this deadly incident are potentially years away, the explosion of mass violence that unfolded in Waco over the past weekend should serve as a word of caution to both corporations and local companies that may knowingly attract and permit crowds of dangerous clientele. Texas courts and the public will carefully scrutinize this matter, particularly if the evidence shows that security measures were ignored or police were denied access to avoid hurting sales.

[Baron Von Crowder]

It will be interesting to see what becomes of all of this. I called the police spokesman a liar when he was doing the first couple of press conferences. Shit just doesn't add up. With the reports that the private video contradicts the police's side of the story, this could get really bad for those LEO's.

[lincolnboy]

I see many many lawsuits in Waco's future....

The mexican resturant next to T.Peaks is sueing.

[46Tbird]

I'll reserve judgment until actual evidence starts getting released.

But all of this makes the whole thing seem really suspect:

- Waco PD and Texas DPS were well-prepared just outside the meet and outfitted with REAL assault weapons and protective gear

- There is at least some widespread indication that initial shots (all but one, according to AP) were fired by law enforcement

- All injuries / fatalities were against bikers

- The first words out of Sarge's mouth was to throw Twin Peaks under the bus for deadly violence in his city

Personally I believe there was a brawl among the bikers that started it off. But it didn't turn deadly until the cops showed up and overreacted, firing their guns like it was the OK Corral. We'll see what the evidence shows.

[Chili]

I'll reserve judgment until actual evidence starts getting released.

But all of this makes the whole thing seem really suspect:

- Waco PD and Texas DPS were well-prepared just outside the meet and outfitted with REAL assault weapons and protective gear

- There is at least some widespread indication that initial shots (all but one, according to AP) were fired by law enforcement

- All injuries / fatalities were against bikers

- The first words out of Sarge's mouth was to throw Twin Peaks under the bus for deadly violence in his city

Personally I believe there was a brawl among the bikers that started it off. But it didn't turn deadly until the cops showed up and overreacted, firing their guns like it was the OK Corral. We'll see what the evidence shows.

So wait, are you saying that the Earps and Doc Holiday were in the wrong in Tombstone??

I'm reserving judgement on this as well, but not at all confident that the police were in the right on this one. I certainly think it is a little ridiculous to arrest 170 people and set all of their bonds at $1MM. I guarantee there are plenty of people that got caught in the wrong place at the wrong time, and are being royally fucked at the moment.

[mstng86]

So wait, are you saying that the Earps and Doc Holiday were in the wrong in Tombstone??

most historians believe Holiday provoked it. so........mmmaybe

The sergeants comments got me smelling something was fishy from the get go.

[Chili]

By the way.. I'm sure there was plenty of private video, but that the police confiscated EVERYTHING able to capture video as soon as the dust settled.

[Gear_Jammer]

By the way.. I'm sure there was plenty of private video, but that the police confiscated EVERYTHING able to capture video as soon as the dust settled.

I wonder if the video will look anything like this???

[Gasser64]

People should have hid their recorders and told them to get bent. They've got no right at all to take anything like that. I would have just told them I lost my phone the other day, waiting on insurance to send me a new one. Then sell recording to random media outlet. FTP

[bcoop]

AP reporting that 115 out of 170 arrested have no criminal record...