Drug raid in Georgia...FTP.

[davbrucas]

Well if we are changing the question I guess you are correct. The next thing I was going to bring up was the fact that there are over 5-10x as many police in the nation than military members were in Iraq at its height yet the number of innocent victims (of each nation) were roughly 10x less in police shootings.

Deaths of innocent Americans is more important than deaths of others.

It's quite a bit easier be a LEO in this country than a combat infantryman in a war zone...but you wont hear the Delta-Seal-Cops say that. The entire country is a war zone to them. Facing a well equipped, well trained enemy whose desire is to kill you and every one with you is a bit different than kicking in doors on homes where there may be 1 or 2 adults who may or may not have a weapon.

[JamisonFRC]

When you kick in a door on a no-knock warrant and storm the place in force, what are you looking for? Anyone that is a threat...ie, target.

I'm not a stranger to urban warfare tactics...

We are not seeking out a threat. The people inside the residence decide if they are a threat or not. We are not looking for a fight. Like I said, the vast majority of warrants are served without deadly force. If police were simply looking for a "target" when serving warrants you would see multiple shootings every day.

[davbrucas]

Also I'm not saying this situation was a good one. I'd like to have a chance to see the warrant first but its a good shoot from the standpoint of the deceased had a shotgun in his hands. I'm not disagreeing about not trusting a snitch or that he was wrong to want to defend his house I'm saying that whoever got thr warrant if in fact that was all they had to go on then they really screwed the team that made entry.

My military sidebar was more of an argument with frost since he's the know all with military. I'm sure he's going to come back about it being a hostile war zone yet won't be able to counter the argument of bad Intel leads to innocent victims.

Our main problem with you guys is that it is plain wrong to break into someone's home in the middle of the night because he may or may not have drugs and kill him when he attempts to defend his home/family. Just because you have been given the authority to do it does not mean that you should. That makes you and your kind, the enemy.

I could see if the person in the house is a wanted felon/murderer and he was holed up in the house...but for drugs? Really? Fucking ridiculous...

And save your breath on your job and the law and legislation. It's dumb and should be questioned.

[davbrucas]

We are not seeking out a threat. The people inside the residence decide if they are a threat or not. We are not looking for a fight. Like I said, the vast majority of warrants are served without deadly force. If police were simply looking for a "target" when serving warrants you would see multiple shootings every day.

You took my intent with "looking for a target."

The homeowner decides if they are a threat? That's dumb. Any man that is awakened by a loud noise in his home will investigate with his gun/rifle. And he will get killed by you govt thugs. You broke into his home. He has a right to defend it.

Yall saying this was a "good shoot" proves our point.

[jewozzy]

Our main problem with you guys is that it is plain wrong to break into someone's home in the middle of the night because he may or may not have drugs and kill him when he attempts to defend his home/family. Just because you have been given the authority to do it does not mean that you should. That makes you and your kind, the enemy.

I could see if the person in the house is a wanted felon/murderer and he was holed up in the house...but for drugs? Really? Fucking ridiculous...

And save your breath on your job and the law and legislation. It's dumb and should be questioned.

As I've stated on here I serve felony warrants on a daily basis with 99% being knock and announce however some of them happen to be no knocks. No knock warrants have their place and I agree they should be reserved for the ones with known violent tendencies. But regardless if its knock and announce or not if you get in the house and the other person has a gun then what do you expect to be done?

[JamisonFRC]

Our main problem with you guys is that it is plain wrong to break into someone's home in the middle of the night because he may or may not have drugs and kill him when he attempts to defend his home/family. Just because you have been given the authority to do it does not mean that you should. That makes you and your kind, the enemy.

I could see if the person in the house is a wanted felon/murderer and he was holed up in the house...but for drugs? Really? Fucking ridiculous...

And save your breath on your job and the law and legislation. It's dumb and should be questioned.

I do not want to go too far off course but drugs equal money. Sometimes a lot of it. With that money comes power. People kill for money and power all the time. And no I'm not talking about the guy down the hall in the dorm selling nickel bags of weed.

To say that selling/trafficking narcotics is a victimless crime is naive. I wish there was a better solution to the problem. Would rescinding all drug laws solve the problem? I don't know. I will say this, I do not think that if meth or coke was made legal tomorrow that everyone would all of the sudden be using. I also believe that marijuana will be legal in the majority of the country within ten years. I am okay with that too. I would much rather deal with someone smoking weed than one that is drunk.

[davbrucas]

As I've stated on here I serve felony warrants on a daily basis with 99% being knock and announce however some of them happen to be no knocks. No knock warrants have their place and I agree they should be reserved for the ones with known violent tendencies. But regardless if its knock and announce or not if you get in the house and the other person has a gun then what do you expect to be done?

In this instance, the cops' lives are less important than the citizen's. Ya'll have to accept the level of risk involved in your job and drop the "home at all costs" crap. This leads to the shoot first, ask questions later mentality that we see from the JBT govt agents in this country.

[davbrucas]

I do not want to go too far off course but drugs equal money. Sometimes a lot of it. With that money comes power. People kill for money and power all the time. And no I'm not talking about the guy down the hall in the dorm selling nickel bags of weed.

To say that selling/trafficking narcotics is a victimless crime is naive. I wish there was a better solution to the problem. Would rescinding all drug laws solve the problem? I don't know. I will say this, I do not think that if meth or coke was made legal tomorrow that everyone would all of the sudden be using. I also believe that marijuana will be legal in the majority of the country within ten years. I am okay with that too. I would much rather deal with someone smoking weed than one that is drunk.

Not victimless, but people make a choice to use it. The war on drugs by law enforcement is, like you said, about money. There is incentive for them to continue the WoD. This has gotten law enforcement away from community policing to the super-cop mentality of today.

[jewozzy]

In this instance, the cops' lives are less important than the citizen's. Ya'll have to accept the level of risk involved in your job and drop the "home at all costs" crap. This leads to the shoot first, ask questions later mentality that we see from the JBT govt agents in this country.

So the officers serving the warrant should've allowed the home owner to potentially shoot them?

[jewozzy]

Not victimless, but people make a choice to use it. The war on drugs by law enforcement is, like you said, about money. There is incentive for them to continue the WoD. This has gotten law enforcement away from community policing to the super-cop mentality of today.

Partially. Community policing and drugs go hand in hand too.

[JamisonFRC]

Not victimless, but people make a choice to use it. The war on drugs by law enforcement is, like you said, about money. There is incentive for them to continue the WoD. This has gotten law enforcement away from community policing to the super-cop mentality of today.

Where do you get this super-cop mentality? From edited videos regurgitated on Youtube? Or the few incidents (as a percentage of total police encounters) shown over and over on the news? Or maybe a prick, that obviously speaks for all officers, pulled you over.

[davbrucas]

So the officers serving the warrant should've allowed the home owner to potentially shoot them?

In most situations, no. But in this situation, better then gestapo than the homeowner.

[davbrucas]

Where do you get this super-cop mentality? From edited videos regurgitated on Youtube? Or the few incidents (as a percentage of total police encounters) shown over and over on the news? Or maybe a prick, that obviously speaks for all officers, pulled you over.

TV...

[jewozzy]

In most situations, no. But in this situation, better then gestapo than the homeowner.

What should the punishment be for doctors who lose a patient due to misdiagnosis? Should they be held criminally responsible? Yes I know it doesn't have anything to do with topic at hand.

[davbrucas]

What should the punishment be for doctors who lose a patient due to misdiagnosis? Should they be held criminally responsible? Yes I know it doesn't have anything to do with topic at hand.

If it's malpractice, the family will sue. If it's malicious, prosecute.

Kind of hard to compare our professions. You have authority over me and can end my life, career or financially ruin me merely based on how well you articulate your report. Physicians have no such authority. And I do not defend all physicians when they are accused of something.