mike brown vs. eric garner

[CexMashean]

I'll add "reduce risk of death by cop" to my list of reasons I "Yes sir, no sir" reply to everything a cop says.

[DON SVO]

I'm a bit late to the game but I'll throw in my 2 shitty cents... A seatbelt hold isn't going to be very effective as a "choke hold"... An MMA submission hold either cuts blood flow to the brain (he was both quite conscious and breathing and talking well after being released) or is a joint crank (neck/spine, his neck wasn't broken which could have caused asphyxiation). He released once the guy said he couldn't breathe.

That's a different cop. There was still another cop on his back, which is the cause of death, according to the medical examiner. He couldn't breath with someone on his back.

You kind of proved the grand jury's reasoning for not pursuing charges... The "choke hold" wasn't the direct cause of his death. The additional weight of the cops on top of his blubbery physique seemed to be the catalyst. The grand jury was pursuing whether the "choke hold" killed him. It didn't.

PS Mr. Grammar Nazi: breathe

Cops can arrest them. Cops can't choke the fuck out of them and jump on their backs until they suffocate and die. Please note the subtle the difference.

Again, the grand jury ruled the "choke hold" didn't kill him. Did the weight of the cops playing piggy back ride possibly facilitate killing him? Interesting theory and certainly one I might question.

Are you saying the grand jury was a panel of his peers, fellow officers? The father didn't have an increased duty of care, he acted as a reasonable father would after finding out his daughter had been raped. Cops should act appropriately with their station in life. This guy didn't.

You're mixing terminology. Juries don't rule on probable cause, they are there to weigh the facts against the law and make a determination.

Correct. They ruled that the "choke hold" did not kill him.

I'll add "reduce risk of death by cop" to my list of reasons I "Yes sir, no sir" reply to everything a cop says.

Goddamn right. Do whatever you have to do to avoid giving the police a chance to terminate your heartbeat.

It's a sad deal for sure, but it seems his obesity and (presumably) poor health might have been a huge, fat factor. Pun intended.

[Broncojohnny]

I'll add "reduce risk of death by cop" to my list of reasons I "Yes sir, no sir" reply to everything a cop says.

Pretty sad that this country has devolved to that.

[Mach1]

I'd like to see what Garner did to justify the takedown the cops did on him. Race has nothing to do with this, and if he was really a threat, and the takedown was justified, then the only thing wrong here is Garners bad health. Thanks to technology, it's much harder for the 5-0 to do whatever the fuck they want, and I think it's great, hopefully they think twice about abusing their power.

[BP]

I'd like to see what Garner did to justify the takedown the cops did on him. Race has nothing to do with this, and if he was really a threat, and the takedown was justified, then the only thing wrong here is Garners bad health. Thanks to technology, it's much harder for the 5-0 to do whatever the fuck they want, and I think it's great, hopefully they think twice about abusing their power.

The 30 or prior arrests aren't enough? I doubt they were all for felonies but still he has an extensive criminal history and has resisted before. Looking at how it went down the officers expected resistance and planned accordingly. He'd been arrested previously for this exact same alleged crime.

Also people need to know that in NYC a pack of cigarettes is around $14.00. He wasn't peddling candy bars for a school charity, the dude should have been making some serious cash. Spend $4 for a pack of Carltons in Jersey and make $20 selling them as singles in NY. You can go even cheaper if smuggle in stuff.

[bcoop]

The 30 or prior arrests aren't enough? I doubt they were all for felonies but still he has an extensive criminal history and has resisted before. Looking at how it went down the officers expected resistance and planned accordingly. He'd been arrested previously for this exact same alleged crime.

Also people need to know that in NYC a pack of cigarettes is around $14.00. He wasn't peddling candy bars for a school charity, the dude should have been making some serious cash. Spend $4 for a pack of Carltons in Jersey and make $20 selling them as singles in NY. You can go even cheaper if smuggle in stuff.

lol

[GhostTX]

I'd like to see what Garner did to justify the takedown the cops did on him. Race has nothing to do with this, and if he was really a threat, and the takedown was justified, then the only thing wrong here is Garners bad health. Thanks to technology, it's much harder for the 5-0 to do whatever the fuck they want, and I think it's great, hopefully they think twice about abusing their power.

They were there to arrest him for selling black market cigarettes created by liberal-topia NYC taxes on tobacco products. The fact that he didn't comply with them to be arrested is why he finally got taken down.

Cops can't go, "oh, he doesn't want to be arrested so we'll go now."

[Mach1]

The fact that he didn't comply with them to be arrested

I didn't see that part in the video posted above, where is the full video?

[GhostTX]

I didn't see that part in the video posted above, where is the full video?

IIRC, according to the testimony, the whole affair took 13 minutes. The video starts at the last 3-4 minutes.

[racrguy]

The 30 or prior arrests aren't enough? I doubt they were all for felonies but still he has an extensive criminal history and has resisted before. Looking at how it went down the officers expected resistance and planned accordingly. He'd been arrested previously for this exact same alleged crime.

Also people need to know that in NYC a pack of cigarettes is around $14.00. He wasn't peddling candy bars for a school charity, the dude should have been making some serious cash. Spend $4 for a pack of Carltons in Jersey and make $20 selling them as singles in NY. You can go even cheaper if smuggle in stuff.

Much like Yale said. Why are we arresting a guy for selling smokes the government already got their tax money on? 30 priors or not, you can't just roll somebody up because they have a history of arrests, that doesn't mean they were committing a crime now. How exactly does one smuggle a legal product? That's like saying he smuggled in a gallon of milk and is selling it by the cup. It doesn't make any sense.

[Broncojohnny]

I wonder how many of the 30 prior arrests were for the capital offense of selling single cigarettes? Oh wait, I forgot we were trying to make this guy look as bad as possible so the cops could try to justify murdering him...

[talisman]

This country does a great job inventing new crimes. Just read Texas lost over 900 million dollars arresting people for cannabis in 2013. JFC.

[Sgt Beavis]

This country does a great job inventing new crimes. Just read Texas lost over 900 million dollars arresting people for cannabis in 2013. JFC.

Do me a favor and gimmie a link to that please.

[Sgt Beavis]

I'm late to this thread but I smell a rat in the NYC prosecutors office. A prosecutor can get an indictment on a damn turnip if he wants to. It is that flippin' easy. When the city coroner rules this a homicide with one of the causes being a chokehold, that alone justifies taking this to a jury. It might not be murder but there is a real case for negligence there.

Obama's idea for body cameras aren't good enough to work this issue. IMO each state should have a special prosecutor that reviews these cases in front of their own grand jury. It could at least take away the perception of collusion.

[Sgt Beavis]

One question on the Brown and Garner cases. Why didn't the cops just taze them? Is that what it is there for? Obviously there are issues with tazing as well but aren't they meant for this kind of scenario? I could still see reasons for using a pistol in the Brown case due to the officer being alone but there were a lot of cops around Garner. There was zero risk of life to any of the officers involved.