Texas Student Killed by Campus Police

[juiceweezl]

The Freedom of Information Act says that the public IS entitled to all evidence, including videos. It is just a question of how much evidence survives the usual 'technical failures' that seem to occur when questionable acts are committed by law enforcement.

Stevo

They aren't entitled to hand over the video in 24/48 hours. You won't see anything until they've reached a decision on what to do or if there is going to be a case in court. Afterwards, you'll see it. If I were involved in something, I wouldn't want video floating around either for people to prejudge what happened. Give it time and see what happens before you rush to hang the guy.

[SS Junk]

Honest question- What is the difference between this altercation and the one with Zimmerman and Martin?

[The King]

Basically none, in that both Zimmerman and the campus police officer admit to killing a young person by firearm, and that the circumstances involving both killings have been or will be investigated to determine if there was legal justification for doing so.

[Vertnut]

Honest question- What is the difference between this altercation and the one with Zimmerman and Martin?

Not sure, but was this kid on top of the officer whipping his ass?

[Snatch Napkin]

Honest question- What is the difference between this altercation and the one with Zimmerman and Martin?

Opinion, at this point, is pretty much all I can come up with.

The school records, student council, and pictures are what have formed my opinion of the difference.

Supposedly, the lapel mic recorded everything. That, along with toxicology will be the deciding factors.

Until then, I'll still be stuck with my conspiracy theory of this officer intentionally killing this kid for some reason. <shrugs shoulders>

[stevo]

They aren't entitled to hand over the video in 24/48 hours. You won't see anything until they've reached a decision on what to do or if there is going to be a case in court. Afterwards, you'll see it. If I were involved in something, I wouldn't want video floating around either for people to prejudge what happened. Give it time and see what happens before you rush to hang the guy.

Several things-

Yes, WE as citizens are entitled to it as soon as it has been recorded, there is no 'waiting period'. The only delay is the length of time it takes for law enforcement to process the request. They nearly always wait until the deadline of the FOIA request to produce it.

Them "reaching a decision on what to do" or them having a case has nothing to do with the FOIA requests.

Lastly, the statement "I wouldn't want video floating around either for people to prejudge what happened" has the least to do with FOIA requests. The wishes of a law enforcement agency to protect it's image until it can fabricate Damage Control does not give it the right to withhold public information from the public.

Stevo

[juiceweezl]

Several things-

Yes, WE as citizens are entitled to it as soon as it has been recorded, there is no 'waiting period'. The only delay is the length of time it takes for law enforcement to process the request. They nearly always wait until the deadline of the FOIA request to produce it.

Them "reaching a decision on what to do" or them having a case has nothing to do with the FOIA requests.

Lastly, the statement "I wouldn't want video floating around either for people to prejudge what happened" has the least to do with FOIA requests. The wishes of a law enforcement agency to protect it's image until it can fabricate Damage Control does not give it the right to withhold public information from the public.

Stevo

I'm not a law expert, but google quickly produced this.

http://www.nfoic.org/texas-foia-laws

Texas Public Information Act

The Texas Public Information Act is a series of laws designed to guarantee that the public has access to public records of government bodies. Until the law was formalized, the ability of a citizen to gain access to public records was at the discretion of the custodian of the records, except in those cases where records custodians were forbidden to allow access. The law covers nearly all documents that are in the possession of government agencies in the state that are covered by the law. Section 552.002 says that information is public if it "is collected, assembled, or maintained under a law or ordinance or in connection with the transaction of official business" by a governmental body or for a governmental body, and the governmental body owns the information or has a right of access to it.

Any person, not just citizens of Texas, can request public information. A statement of purpose is not required nor is there a law on how the records can be used. The Texas Public Information Act allows 10 days for a response to public record requests.

Public Information Act Tex. Rev. Civ. Stat. Ann. art. 6252-17a

Closed: Attorney consultations; real estate transactions; hearings of the ethics commission; personnel and individual student matters; and emergency medical service quality reviews, etc.

Seems to me that the 'law' covers documents. You'd have to argue that the video is a document. Next it says they have 10 days to respond to a public request. Have you or anyone filed a request yet? Next, it says 'closed' are 'personnel and individual student matters.' I'd say this is a personnel matter.

I'm not sure what your hard-on for this LEO or any LEO is. It seems to me that...

a) A tragedy occurred where a young man (I didn't say innocent) was killed. Now a family must carry on without him and another man (I didn't say guilty or innocent) must live with the results of his actions.

b) As always, there's more to the story than we are hearing/seeing. Could things have gone down differently? Certainly so. Should they have gone down differently? Again, I think everyone, including the LEO and the family of the deceased believe so. The fact is everyone wants to be a Monday morning quarterback on everything that has a negative outcome.

c) Give the LEO, the deceased's family, and the procedures in place a chance to work and then see what happens. If it was cut and dry, one way or the other, the information would have been presented to us right away. The fact that it hasn't been to me means they are investigating every possible scenario.

[stevo]

I'm not a law expert, but google quickly produced this.

http://www.nfoic.org/texas-foia-laws

Seems to me that the 'law' covers documents. You'd have to argue that the video is a document. Next it says they have 10 days to respond to a public request. Have you or anyone filed a request yet? Next, it says 'closed' are 'personnel and individual student matters.' I'd say this is a personnel matter.

I'm not sure what your hard-on for this LEO or any LEO is. It seems to me that...

a) A tragedy occurred where a young man (I didn't say innocent) was killed. Now a family must carry on without him and another man (I didn't say guilty or innocent) must live with the results of his actions.

b) As always, there's more to the story than we are hearing/seeing. Could things have gone down differently? Certainly so. Should they have gone down differently? Again, I think everyone, including the LEO and the family of the deceased believe so. The fact is everyone wants to be a Monday morning quarterback on everything that has a negative outcome.

c) Give the LEO, the deceased's family, and the procedures in place a chance to work and then see what happens. If it was cut and dry, one way or the other, the information would have been presented to us right away. The fact that it hasn't been to me means they are investigating every possible scenario.

Wow, you sure suddenly developed a severe case of asshurtedness. I'll touch upon a couple of your statements.

Seems to me that the 'law' covers documents. You'd have to argue that the video is a document. Next it says they have 10 days to respond to a public request. Have you or anyone filed a request yet? Next, it says 'closed' are 'personnel and individual student matters.' I'd say this is a personnel matter.

ANYTHING law enforcement DOCUMENTS is a document. It can be physical evidence, videos, pictures, phone recordings. I wouldn't think you were that stupid.

10 days to respond. Yes, that means they have to produce the documents within 10 days of the request being filed. It doesn't mean that there is a 10 day waiting period.

I have not filed the request, but imagine several people have done it. I'm sure several news agencies have and I would think the lawyers for the family have as well.

This is NOT a 'personnel and individual student matter'. It is the homicide of a citizen by the hand of a law enforcement officer in open public. For you to even remotely claim it is a 'personal matter' is assassin.

The rest of your narrative I'm not going to address, it is pointless.

Stevo

[juiceweezl]

Wow, you sure suddenly developed a severe case of asshurtedness. I'll touch upon a couple of your statements.



ANYTHING law enforcement DOCUMENTS is a document. It can be physical evidence, videos, pictures, phone recordings. I wouldn't think you were that stupid.

10 days to respond. Yes, that means they have to produce the documents within 10 days of the request being filed. It doesn't mean that there is a 10 day waiting period.

I have not filed the request, but imagine several people have done it. I'm sure several news agencies have and I would think the lawyers for the family have as well.

This is NOT a 'personnel and individual student matter'. It is the POTENTIALhomicide of a citizen by the hand of a law enforcement officer in open public. For you to even remotely claim it is a 'personal matter' is assassin.

The rest of your narrative I'm not going to address, it is pointless.

Stevo

Seems you're the one who's butthurt. You know how law works, right? Innocent until proven guilty. Remember the punk who bombed the Boston Marathon, went on the run, shot another guy, got into a gun battle with LEO's, etc.? Remember him? He's awaiting trial even though we all suspect he's guilty. I'm giving the LEO in this case a pass until the investigation is over as I'm giving the kid a pass. As Robert said -- something doesn't sound right, so I'm trying to be open minded about it.

Also, I'm not going to look it up and I'm no law expert, but I think you're incorrect. I don't think FOIA will allow you to get the weapon that was used in a suspected murder case right away. You also have documents and stuff that are sealed for a court case. FOIA is not a walk into the police station and demand to see whatever you want.

10 days to respond, 10 day waiting period...call it what you want. Someone needs to file the request and it can take up to 10 days to get the information plain and simple. If you don't like it, contact your elected representative and try to get the law changed.

I fixed your last part. It's a potential homicide that is under investigation. Also, I believe the word you're looking for is asinine, but hey, what do I know?

I'm done arguing with your one-sided view. Enjoy the rest of the thread.

[stevo]

Seems you're the one who's butthurt. You know how law works, right? Innocent until proven guilty. Remember the punk who bombed the Boston Marathon, went on the run, shot another guy, got into a gun battle with LEO's, etc.? Remember him? He's awaiting trial even though we all suspect he's guilty. I'm giving the LEO in this case a pass until the investigation is over as I'm giving the kid a pass. As Robert said -- something doesn't sound right, so I'm trying to be open minded about it.

Also, I'm not going to look it up and I'm no law expert, but I think you're incorrect. I don't think FOIA will allow you to get the weapon that was used in a suspected murder case right away. You also have documents and stuff that are sealed for a court case. FOIA is not a walk into the police station and demand to see whatever you want.



10 days to respond, 10 day waiting period...call it what you want. Someone needs to file the request and it can take up to 10 days to get the information plain and simple. If you don't like it, contact your elected representative and try to get the law changed.

I fixed your last part. It's a potential homicide that is under investigation. Also, I believe the word you're looking for is asinine, but hey, what do I know?

I'm done arguing with your one-sided view. Enjoy the rest of the thread.

Blah blah blah. I want to see the raw evidence, not what has been white-washed by the cops. Not what is left after they have decided to redact it with 'technical failures'. And if you are stupid to know the difference between a 10 day compliance order and a 10 day waiting period you need to go back to school.

By the way, you may want to get a dictionary before you start attempting to 'fix' people's comments-

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/homicide

ho·mi·cide
noun \ˈhä-mə-ˌsīd, ˈhō-\
: the act of killing another person
Full Definition of HOMICIDE
1: a person who kills another
2: a killing of one human being by another

Stevo

[juiceweezl]

Blah blah blah. I want to see the raw evidence, not what has been white-washed by the cops. Not what is left after they have decided to redact it with 'technical failures'. And if you are stupid to know the difference between a 10 day compliance order and a 10 day waiting period you need to go back to school.

By the way, you may want to get a dictionary before you start attempting to 'fix' people's comments-

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/homicide

Stevo

You want to see all the raw evidence? You want to stop the LEO abuse of power you're crying about? Go to school, get a degree, and put in your app with the DA's office and prosecute away. Nothing is stopping you except...you. Okay, so yes, homicide. It's not murder at this time and could be 100% justifiable and legal. At this point, he hasn't been convicted of a crime. Neither has the deceased student. Leave it at that.

[stevo]

I'm done arguing with your one-sided view. Enjoy the rest of the thread.

Okay...

You want to see all the raw evidence? You want to stop the LEO abuse of power you're crying about? Go to school, get a degree, and put in your app with the DA's office and prosecute away. Nothing is stopping you except...you. Okay, so yes, homicide. It's not murder at this time and could be 100% justifiable and legal. At this point, he hasn't been convicted of a crime. Neither has the deceased student. Leave it at that.

Your cup o' asshurtedness overflows... I'm not sure why you are so adamant on hiding the facts and proof from the public until the police can decide what the public should see, but go ahead and run with it. I'm sure the family of the dead college student would like the unadulterated EVIDENCE right now to make their own deductions, instead of waiting for the police department to decide their fellow police officer in their own police department is at fault.

Stevo

[racrguy]

Am I the only person that thinks the police are a net negative to society in their current capacity?

[dcs13]

Okay...



Your cup o' asshurtedness overflows... I'm not sure why you are so adamant on hiding the facts and proof from the public until the police can decide what the public should see, but go ahead and run with it. I'm sure the family of the dead college student would like the unadulterated EVIDENCE right now to make their own deductions, instead of waiting for the police department to decide their fellow police officer in their own police department is at fault.

Stevo

If the Rangers are looking into it, it will be handled properly. Those guys don't mess around

[dcs13]

Am I the only person that thinks the police are a net negative to society in their current capacity?

Let us know how that works out for you... You find no value whatsoever in the Police Department where you live to affect crimes/traffic issues ?