A follow up poll.

[racrguy]

DOHCTR's thread has me wondering what our demographics are like. I'll make a simple yes/no poll. The poll is not public, so if you are of either side and don't want the world to know, nobody but you will.

[idrivea4banger]

Where's the not sure option?

[racrguy]

Where's the not sure option?

If you don't have an active belief, for example "I believe in a god/higher power" then your answer is no. If you don't know, then your answer is no.

[Baron Von Crowder]

If you don't have an active belief, for example "I believe in a god/higher power" then your answer is no. If you don't know, then your answer is no.

couldnt that go both ways? I mean, nobody is "sure" there is a god.

[racrguy]

couldnt that go both ways? I mean, nobody is "sure" there is a god.

No. Carlos was asking where the "I'm not sure if I believe or not" answer is.

There is no such thing as agnosticism by itself, it is a modifier to belief. If you do not actively believe, then you don't believe. Does that make sense? Let me try to word that differently. If you can't say "I believe in a god/higher power" then your answer is no, regardless of what god or higher power you might be struggling with the existence of.


There are people on both sides who are sure of their position in the fact that god does/does not exist. But I'd argue that they're wrong.



Also, who the fuck moved my poll! I wanted to use the same sample as DOHCTR so that I could see something. Move this shit back!

[Baron Von Crowder]

I think Carlos brought up a very good "grey area" with his question. By your chart, 75% of the boxes are a yes by my interp; by yours 75% is a no. Similar to a reasonable doubt brings a not guilty verdict in court.

[Strychnine]

Also, who the fuck moved my poll! I wanted to use the same sample as DOHCTR so that I could see something. Move this shit back!

This.
Moving it here defeats the purpose of the thread. You might as well just delete it

[racrguy]

I think Carlos brought up a very good "grey area" with his question. By your chart, 75% of the boxes are a yes by my interp; by yours 75% is a no. Similar to a reasonable doubt brings a not guilty verdict in court.

50% is yes and 50% is no. Atheism is a lack of a belief in a god/god(s) (I don't know if I believe falls into this realm), theism is a belief in a god/god(s). Agnostic and Gnostic are just claims to knowledge. I am an agnostic atheist, does that mean I believe in a higher power?

I'm not sure how to break it down simpler, let me think on it or get my buddy Jeff in here. He's far better at explaining shit than I am.

[Maddhattter]

couldnt that go both ways?

With the actual question being asked, no.

I mean, nobody is "sure" there is a god.

Actually, you can find a great many people who will say that they know that a god/gods do/do not exist. However, what I don't really feel that racrguy explained properly is that knowledge is a subset of belief.

You either believe something is true, or you do not. Not believing something is true does not mean you believe the opposite. So, unless you actively believe that a god/gods exist, then your answer is 'Nay'.

I think Carlos brought up a very good "grey area" with his question. By your chart, 75% of the boxes are a yes by my interp; by yours 75% is a no. Similar to a reasonable doubt brings a not guilty verdict in court.

Going on what I was saying before, I don't feel like racrguy explained this thoroughly. By definition, t's not a 75% one way or the other. His chart is a 50/50 split.

If you believe that a god/gods exist, then you are a theist. If you believe but do not claim to know, or claim to not know, you are an agnostic theist. If you believe and claim to know that a god/gods exist, then you are a gnostic theist. Any of the above would be in the 'Yay' category.

If you do not believe that a god/gods exist, then you are an atheist. If you do not believe but do not claim to know, or claim not to know, then you are an agnostic atheist. If you do not believe and claim to know that a god/gods do not exist, then you are a gnostic atheist. All of these would be in the 'Nay' category.

His poll is a question is about what you believe, not what you know. If you are not sure, then you do not believe. Using your own analogy, if you are not sure if someone is guilty, you should put in a vote of 'Not Guilty', not 'Innocent'. By stating that you do not know if a god/gods exist, you are not claiming that you believe that a god/gods does not exist, only that you do not believe that it/they does.

[BMCSean]

Yes, Carlos is going to be mad at everyone for calling him Carlos.

[Baron Von Crowder]

With the actual question being asked, no.



Actually, you can find a great many people who will say that they know that a god/gods do/do not exist. However, what I don't really feel that racrguy explained properly is that knowledge is a subset of belief.

You either believe something is true, or you do not. Not believing something is true does not mean you believe the opposite. So, unless you actively believe that a god/gods exist, then your answer is 'Nay'.



Going on what I was saying before, I don't feel like racrguy explained this thoroughly. By definition, t's not a 75% one way or the other. His chart is a 50/50 split.

If you believe that a god/gods exist, then you are a theist. If you believe but do not claim to know, or claim to not know, you are an agnostic theist. If you believe and claim to know that a god/gods exist, then you are a gnostic theist. Any of the above would be in the 'Yay' category.

If you do not believe that a god/gods exist, then you are an atheist. If you do not believe but do not claim to know, or claim not to know, then you are an agnostic atheist. If you do not believe and claim to know that a god/gods do not exist, then you are a gnostic atheist. All of these would be in the 'Nay' category.

His poll is a question is about what you believe, not what you know. If you are not sure, then you do not believe. Using your own analogy, if you are not sure if someone is guilty, you should put in a vote of 'Not Guilty', not 'Innocent'. By stating that you do not know if a god/gods exist, you are not claiming that you believe that a god/gods does not exist, only that you do not believe that it/they does.

You cant claim "not sure" as a no, by definition. In order to be unsure, you have to belive that a god/gods/higher power might exist.

[racrguy]

You cant claim "not sure" as a no, by definition. In order to be unsure, you have to belive that a god/gods/higher power might exist.

I believe that a god/gods/higher power might possibly exist, as it hasn't been proven not to. Does that mean I should have chosen yes as my answer instead of no?

Carlos is unsure if he believes, that is explicitly a "no" answer, because he doesn't believe one to exist.

[Baron Von Crowder]

I believe that a god/gods/higher power might possibly exist, as it hasn't been proven not to. Does that mean I should have chosen yes as my answer instead of no?

well, yes. IMO, unless you are 100% sure of no existance, then in your poll, yes would have to be the answer.

Perhaps you should pray about it.

[Maddhattter]

You cant claim "not sure" as a no, by definition. In order to be unsure, you have to belive that a god/gods/higher power might exist.

You can "not sure" as a no because it is, by definition. When it comes to a claim, such as having a belief in a god/gods as it is in this case, there are only two dichotomous options. Someone having a belief is either true or untrue. Unsure, unknown, impossible to know, paradoxical and anything else that isn't 'True' falls under the 'Untrue' category. Claiming that you do not believe in a god/gods/higher power does not mean you are ruling out the possiblity, nor does it mean that you believe that they do not exist.

You can believe that a god/gods/higher power might exist without believing that they do. In fact, the category of agnostic atheist falls under this. Agnostic atheists do not believe in a god/gods. However, since they are not claiming that they know that a god/gods exist, they are tacitly admitting that a god/gods might exist.

[racrguy]

well, yes. IMO, unless you are 100% sure of no existance, then in your poll, yes would have to be the answer.

But I don't believe a god to exist. How does that work? All I've done is left the possibility for one to exist. I am correctly classified as an agnostic atheist.

Perhaps you should pray about it.

Tried that, didn't work.