Oxford Diner Owner Says Veteran, Service Dog Not Welcome In Restaurant

[2011GT]

Who knows maybe the dog just got done rolling around in his own shit.

[KBScobravert]

If you want/need to take a dog with you everywhere, you have to learn somehow about the boundaries of where you can and can't take them. I am sure that those lessons are not learned without getting your feelings hurt. But suck it the fuck up and bump on down the road to some place that welcomes you instead.

Do you want to be coddled or treated like everyone else? That is the question only each person out there can answer.

[KBScobravert]

And here is another spin on it

http://www.necn.com/08/26/13/Veteran-service-dog-refused-service-at-O/landing.html?blockID=850653

NECN: Katelyn Tivnan) - For James Glaser and his dog, Jack, a quick lunch at Big I's in Oxford, Mass. took a much different turn.

"My feet just got into the restaurant and I 'hear get that F-ing fake service dog out of my restaurant,'" said Iraq veteran James Glaser.

Glaser suffers from severe PTSD. Jack is a trained service dog with the papers to prove it.

But Glaser says even after showing his certification, the owner still wouldn't let them in.

"Just the fact he did it in public, I never felt so belittled in my life," said Glaser.

"This is not a needs dog to me," said owner Russel Ireland. "He did not come in with a harness. There's no muzzle on it."

Ireland stands by his decision to not let Glaser bring Jack into the diner.

Jack did go inside inside once before, but Ireland says he wasn't happy then either.

"I watched them feed the dog off the plate that you're going to use next," said Ireland. "After it gets washed, of course. But still, a dog ate off it."

Glaser called police, who also explained to Ireland the dog is allowed inside.

According to the American Disabilities Act, a PTSD dog is considered a service dog and is allowed anywhere their owner goes.

Glaser hopes that will be better understood now.

"Twenty-one years in the military, nine years away from my family, being deployed, defending his right to own that restaurant," said Glaser.

Ireland wishes he handled the situation better.

"I didn't say anything last time he was in, so it was partially my fault," said Ireland. "I admit this, I overreacted, granted, I'm only human."

[Vertnut]

Tough call, but it is his call. He should have handled it differently for sure.

[ZYouL8R]

I don't have a problem with the owner refusing to serve him, but I also have no issue with the veteran telling his story to the masses. It's the owner's restaurant, so he can do whatever he wants with regards to letting people in or kicking people out, but he should be prepared for the consequences after. If you don't want bad press, don't be a dick.

Edit: 6000th post. My life is complete.

[01vnms4v]

Edit: 6000th post. My life is complete.

[Captain Crawfish]

I see nothing wrong with a service dog but maybe not near the kitchen. Owner could have handle it a lot better.

[Forever_frost]

Under the ADA, State and local governments, businesses, and nonprofit organizations that serve the public generally must allow service animals to accompany people with disabilities in all areas of the facility where the public is normally allowed to go. For example, in a hospital it would be inappropriate to exclude a service animal from areas such as patient rooms, clinics, cafeterias, or examination rooms. However, it may be appropriate to exclude a service animal from operating rooms or burn units where the animal’s presence may compromise a sterile environment.

http://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm

A person with a disability cannot be asked to remove his service animal from the premises unless: (1) the dog is out of control and the handler does not take effective action to control it or (2) the dog is not housebroken. When there is a legitimate reason to ask that a service animal be removed, staff must offer the person with the disability the opportunity to obtain goods or services without the animal’s presence.

Establishments that sell or prepare food must allow service animals in public areas even if state or local health codes prohibit animals on the premises

[talisman]

My dog is in my kitchen all the time. I'm surprised I haven't died yet.

[Chili]

Under the ADA, State and local governments, businesses, and nonprofit organizations that serve the public generally must allow service animals to accompany people with disabilities in all areas of the facility where the public is normally allowed to go. For example, in a hospital it would be inappropriate to exclude a service animal from areas such as patient rooms, clinics, cafeterias, or examination rooms. However, it may be appropriate to exclude a service animal from operating rooms or burn units where the animal’s presence may compromise a sterile environment.

http://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm

A person with a disability cannot be asked to remove his service animal from the premises unless: (1) the dog is out of control and the handler does not take effective action to control it or (2) the dog is not housebroken. When there is a legitimate reason to ask that a service animal be removed, staff must offer the person with the disability the opportunity to obtain goods or services without the animal’s presence.

Establishments that sell or prepare food must allow service animals in public areas even if state or local health codes prohibit animals on the premises

The thing is, the business owner still has the right to refuse service to anyone, and can legally ask anyone to leave his premises, can he not? Does the ADA trump that? If it does, it certainly shouldn't, IMO.

I won't even entertain the debate on whether or not this guy should have a service animal or not, his veteran status, realities of ptsd, etc, as none of that is germane to the issue, nor am I qualified or informed sufficiently to make that call. In my mind, the only factor here is whether or not the business owner retains the right to refuse service. That can be tested by supplanting the veteran with a blind person and their seeing eye dog. Would the business owner be violating the ADA by refusing service to the blind person, and / or by asking them to leave.

Now, that argument aside, I do feel the business owner is a douche for the way he handled it. I also believe that if he chooses not to serve individuals due to having a service animal, and his business is "protested" or otherwise impacted as a result, then so be it. As a business owner you have to make a decision on how you deal with customers and who you choose to do business with, and then deal with the consequences of that decision.

I do think it is very silly for people in this thread to try and debate the validity of PTSD, or the usefulness of them having a service animal, unless they have the qualifications to make valid arguments on the subject. Meaning, primarily, that they are a trained medical professional who is up to date on the most recent treatments and such.

I mean, you are certainly free to have your opinions and all, but if your opinion is formed without any relevant knowledge on the subject, you are just talking out of your ass.

[centexchick]

The thing is, the business owner still has the right to refuse service to anyone, and can legally ask anyone to leave his premises, can he not? Does the ADA trump that? If it does, it certainly shouldn't, IMO.
..............That can be tested by supplanting the veteran with a blind person and their seeing eye dog. Would the business owner be violating the ADA by refusing service to the blind person, and / or by asking them to leave.

And there in lies the problem. It is illegal for him to refuse service to anyone with a service dog. be that person blind, has epilepsy, ptsd....any thing. He can not refuse service because of the dog. If it was because he was bare footed, dirty, foul-mouthed....any other reason....he could ask him to leave.....but you can not discrimate against a person who falls under the ADA exemptions...if you will. It is silly and if a business owner doesn't want dogs or cats or birds in there for any reason then that is their right...just as it is ours to not go there if they won't serve us. But alas....we live in a stupid stupid time and everyone has to be responsible for everyone else.

[roliath]

"We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone."


Cry me a fucking river. This shouldn't be news. Is it shitty? Perhaps. I tend to agree with the owner. Having dogs around is a food safety issue.

Yeah I went to Qdoba once when I had Duke and he was just a puppy and I didn't want to leave him the car while I ordered. I walked in, they said MOPE! and I left
I didn't get Qdoba that day.

[bcoop]

My dog is in my kitchen all the time. I'm surprised I haven't died yet.

Don't encourage restaurant owners... I'm all for smaller government, etc. However, some regulating agencies, like the health department, NEED to exist. I've seen some shit that would have a normal person puking bile on the spot, and they'd never eat out again. And I see it every single day.

[Chili]

And there in lies the problem. It is illegal for him to refuse service to anyone with a service dog. be that person blind, has epilepsy, ptsd....any thing. He can not refuse service because of the dog. If it was because he was bare footed, dirty, foul-mouthed....any other reason....he could ask him to leave.....but you can not discrimate against a person who falls under the ADA exemptions...if you will. It is silly and if a business owner doesn't want dogs or cats or birds in there for any reason then that is their right...just as it is ours to not go there if they won't serve us. But alas....we live in a stupid stupid time and everyone has to be responsible for everyone else.

Yeah, I just did some more reading here: http://www.ada.gov/regs2010/titleIII...egulations.pdf

That answered my questions. The business owner cannot deny service due to the disability or the service animal. He can only ask 2 questions relating to it: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability, and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform. He cannot demand any additional information, documentation, certification, etc. He also cannot inquire as to the nature of the disability.

So this ends up much like the whole "employment at will" thing in Texas. You can fire anyone for any reason, other than those otherwise protected. So in this case, the restaurant can deny service to anyone other than those protected under the ADA (or any other discrimination type protective laws).

I certainly learned something new today!

In my "lay" opinion the business owner definitely violated the ADA and could be subjected to pretty substantial fines and civil liability.

BTW, nothing I read even requires that a service animal have the vest thingy or any particular harness. And hell, the fact that the business cannot question the validity of the dog being a service animal tells me that pretty much anyone could get over by claiming protection under the ADA. Of course, they would not have any civil or legal remedies should the business violate the ADA rules.

[roliath]

Don't encourage restaurant owners... I'm all for smaller government, etc. However, some regulating agencies, like the health department, NEED to exist. I've seen some shit that would have a normal person puking bile on the spot, and they'd never eat out again. And I see it every single day.

What restaurant chains or mom/pop shops should I stay away from?