Young people isolated in the working world

[Rreemo]

We have a college hire program at my company (MACH) - http://careers.microsoft.com/careers/en/sg/mach.aspx , and while I think it is a great program to help shape the workforce fresh out of college, I'm often amazed (in a disappointing way) at the level of hires we are seeing come through this program in more recent years. It used to be that we would get a 50/50 mix on folks with talent and drive vs. those without (8-10 yrs ago), however in the last few years it's gotten to where we see literally only 2 good ones out of about every 10. This in direct relation to the drop in avg level of maturity as far as I can see.

These kids coming out of college today need A LOT of hand holding, and not just with things like you'd expect such as technology readiness, customer facing skills, etc...it's stupid simple stuff like multiple reminders of deadlines, how to use simple internal tools for expenses and operational stuff....and even getting to work on-time in a lot of cases. Their expectations are extremely HIGH too....entitlement is out the window with most of them. It's honestly a bit scary from my vantage point....I can't imagine what the workforce is going to look like in another decade.

BTW, on the OP's #4 above. In full agreement there, but also as someone who works for a corp giant that heavily leverages offshore outsourcing, I do not think that there is enough taxation put upon these companies who decide to send so much labor to other markets. To the contrary, our govt is so damned concerned with globalization of economy that they've entirely lost focus on what built America in the first place. We need to be taxing these US-based companies that offshore their labor much more aggressively! It's certainly not what those companies want to hear, and that is b/c they are cutting costs so dramatically....I have personally seen where offshore resource savings have netted around 75%! If a company is improving their P&L numbers to those extremes it should be treated like capital gains IMO.

[Josh.0]

Im waiting for the student loan bubble to explode.

I've met a girl who was fresh out of college working at walgreens making 10 an hour with 120k in student loan debt.

almost all of my friends that just graduated are in that same boat right now.

We're raising Generation Dumbass. Kids are unwilling to work their ass off from the bottom up. They are entitled, convinced they are worth more than they are and are impatient.

so freaking true.

[Cooter]

Well, working from the bottom up is essentially gone now, too. There arent many places that will train you and let you work up the chain.

oil field

[Sean88gt]

oil field

Most skilled trades will do that. Take plumbing, you go to work as a grunt (Paula Dean: Nigger) and do the shit work, prove you're worth a damn and you move up to the point you either run crews or open your own business.

But the entitlement says - I need to earn HNIC money now, so I need that position.

The understanding of knowledge and what it brings seems to have gone the same way of supply & demand.

[Chuck_Finley]

BTW, on the OP's #4 above. In full agreement there, but also as someone who works for a corp giant that heavily leverages offshore outsourcing, I do not think that there is enough taxation put upon these companies who decide to send so much labor to other markets. To the contrary, our govt is so damned concerned with globalization of economy that they've entirely lost focus on what built America in the first place. We need to be taxing these US-based companies that offshore their labor much more aggressively! It's certainly not what those companies want to hear, and that is b/c they are cutting costs so dramatically....I have personally seen where offshore resource savings have netted around 75%! If a company is improving their P&L numbers to those extremes it should be treated like capital gains IMO.

I'm personally a conservative, and I mean that in every sense of the true definition of the word. When you start playing the tariff games with other nations, you inevitably run the increased risk that they'll slap it right back on you at some point, for whatever product/service you export, which includes general labor. In a true free market you shouldn't have to resort to using those types of taxes, but the reality is that some nations do. To an extent, and in light of the reality that is our global economy, sure I think we should use tariffs on a shitload of things we import from China that you'll find in every Wal-mart.

In my opinion companies here in the U.S. are taxed far too much. The fact that in your own example you're seeing savings of 75% which directly impacts the bottom line due to outsourcing some labor, that alone should tell you that taxes here are too high.

I'll give another example that I've personally observed. I lived in the midwest for a number of years way back when and I saw firsthand how the rust belt got its name with so many cities and towns scattered all over the region dependent upon the steel, auto and general manufacturing industries. I saw what happened when those industries dried up too. Now there are many factors leading to those decisions and we can spend all day arguing about that alone, but one thing that remains true is that many local governments up there generally were comfortable with how things were running when all of those industries were churning out product. When business and the economy took a downturn, those local .gov's didn't really do jack shit.

When I moved down here and especially began paying attention to how the local .gov's (in Tarrant county as an example) operated in attracting businesses, it was very different. A lot of companies requesting tax abatements out the ass and most of them receive it. I thought it was blatantly wrong when I first got here, but having been here for a good while now, I can honestly say I was wrong. The number of businesses that continue to come to this area still impresses me and the fact that there are still a lot of people who have a decent mindset of just wanting to get shit done goes a long way.

Now this is small potatoes compared to the fed.gov's taxing out the ass of anything it can dream up, but look at how well it's worked out and continues to yield net positive results for our local economy. If the feds could ever pull their heads out of their asses, we could be kicking ass in our economy as a nation even moreso than we are now and the wealth that is generated from that would absolutely yield nearly guaranteed prosperity for anyone who is willing to work.

[naynay]

I run crews. Hnic

[stephen4785]

I hope the college bubble bursts some time soon. Not that I hope people fail or anything I just hope college looses it's prestigious appeal for high schooler's. I know quite a few college grads that do well but I'v known/met more people with degree's that cant get into a job that has anything to do with their study. If a yearly wage is the measure of success then most of the degree holders I know have failed miserably.

[racrguy]

I've been getting pressured pretty hard to go back to school, but there aren't any degrees that interest me as something I'd want to do for the rest of my life. And let's face it, with the cost of school these days you'd better make goddamn sure what you're studying is something that you like. That being said, I've met some college graduates that couldn't pour piss out of a boot with instructions written on the heel.

[lowthreeohz]

on the flip side of that, a college education is often a prerequisite for a decent job that doesn't entail physical labor. if people are content climbing the ladder up to the median $50k/family income, then more power to them.

i have a coworker that has no college education. The dude's sharp as a tack, does the exact same work i do, and makes considerably less money. There are affordable ways to obtain a degree, and with the lifelong benefits i think it's silly not to.

[TexasT]

I went to college(Texas A&M, yes the one in college station, for those wondering), until I realised the money I was borrowing was stacking and my grades weren't. I stopped and got a job and paid back the loans and went to tcjc(back when it was called that) at night while working days n weekends. I never thought my parents would pay even though they said they would(just one of the empty promises). Ended up married with children so no degree for me.

I have made it one of my top child rearing goals to teach my children to make good, solid decisions. I think then and now this is one of the greatest down falls of our youth is that they never learned to make the decisions so when they are faced with making them, poor decisions,are made. This is very evident in our government direction and the gov loves it. Problem is spending other people money only works until the other people's money dries up.

My son won't even get a driver's license though he is taking welding courses. I just hope he can weld when he gets done. Pipefitter, mill wright, plumber, and he wants to work on cars for a living. I have told him, working on cars is a hobby for when you are comfortable and have some disposaeable income(side note, if anyone would like to message me that actually does work on cars for a living I welcome the input). He is already to borrow and head on down to Lincoln tech or uti. I have told him he already knows more than they will teach him if he would just hang out in the garage with me but he doesn't even do that . So I'm very sure him actually making a decent living bustin knuckles isn't real high on my, yeah I believe that meter.

Daughter attends college, has two summer jobs and is doing well. Son, no job, no license, and a crazy dream. Wife sez, let him dream. I'm afraid he'll be dreaming when he's 30 on my couch. Oh well, at least I'm able to support them for now, but my back won't last forever.

[Rreemo]

I'm personally a conservative, and I mean that in every sense of the true definition of the word. When you start playing the tariff games with other nations, you inevitably run the increased risk that they'll slap it right back on you at some point, for whatever product/service you export, which includes general labor. In a true free market you shouldn't have to resort to using those types of taxes, but the reality is that some nations do. To an extent, and in light of the reality that is our global economy, sure I think we should use tariffs on a shitload of things we import from China that you'll find in every Wal-mart.

In my opinion companies here in the U.S. are taxed far too much. The fact that in your own example you're seeing savings of 75% which directly impacts the bottom line due to outsourcing some labor, that alone should tell you that taxes here are too high.

I'll give another example that I've personally observed. I lived in the midwest for a number of years way back when and I saw firsthand how the rust belt got its name with so many cities and towns scattered all over the region dependent upon the steel, auto and general manufacturing industries. I saw what happened when those industries dried up too. Now there are many factors leading to those decisions and we can spend all day arguing about that alone, but one thing that remains true is that many local governments up there generally were comfortable with how things were running when all of those industries were churning out product. When business and the economy took a downturn, those local .gov's didn't really do jack shit.

When I moved down here and especially began paying attention to how the local .gov's (in Tarrant county as an example) operated in attracting businesses, it was very different. A lot of companies requesting tax abatements out the ass and most of them receive it. I thought it was blatantly wrong when I first got here, but having been here for a good while now, I can honestly say I was wrong. The number of businesses that continue to come to this area still impresses me and the fact that there are still a lot of people who have a decent mindset of just wanting to get shit done goes a long way.

Now this is small potatoes compared to the fed.gov's taxing out the ass of anything it can dream up, but look at how well it's worked out and continues to yield net positive results for our local economy. If the feds could ever pull their heads out of their asses, we could be kicking ass in our economy as a nation even moreso than we are now and the wealth that is generated from that would absolutely yield nearly guaranteed prosperity for anyone who is willing to work.

I get what you are saying, and I too am a conservative...maybe not in every sense, but mostly so. As such, I do cringe myself to say add more taxes, but at the same time with the issue of offshore labor we are absolutely killing the technology job market (not just support), and especially the quality of product as a service where it's concerned. Maybe taxation was a poor choice of words from me, but where these large corporations are concerned...sending US jobs to richen these poor economies like India, Indonesia, Philippines, etc. They aren't just saving themselves a buck (or 10's of millions in reality), they are also taking away opportunities from folks right here on their own soil...those same individuals who would be helping the economy by lowering unemployment, paying income tax, social security, etc. Instead that job was never an opportunity and goes to someone who won't ever in-turn contribute to our economy/society as an individual taxpayer. That's more-so my point...there needs to be better incentives for those jobs to stay here and at the same time, less incentive (some form of penalty) for sending them outside of our economy....the carrot and the stick, so to speak.

I think the bigger issue of taxation on companies falls too much so on the small business owners. It's getting to a point where it's almost unreasonable to start and own a small business...of course unless you are doing it with a govt assisted grant as a foreign native. ...again, here lies more issues.

[slow99]

... I have told him, working on cars is a hobby for when you are comfortable and have some disposaeable income(side note, if anyone would like to message me that actually does work on cars for a living I welcome the input).

Discretionary.

[diablo rojo]

Droz: What's your major?

College Hippie: Sanskrit.

Droz: Sanskrit. You're majoring in a 5000 year-old dead language?

Sanskrit Major: Yeah.

Droz: hmmm... latin, best I can do. next.

(Jock walks up)

Droz: Phys Ed? get out of here. i mean, no, really get out of here.

One of my favorite movies of all time.

[Vertnut]

An education is like most things: you get out of it what you put into it. My youngest was recruited while still in school, so without college (marketing major/advertising minor), she certainly wouldn't have her current job. 2 years out of school she's doing extremely well with great benefits and perks. She does have several friends still hanging out in Austin with no job, so who knows.

[jayjohnson600]

College is NOT for everyone. One example is myself.

I have a degree in Biological Science and Computer Science.

Less than 10% of my coworkers in every company that I have worked for, have been degree holders.
I received no advantage in my career by going to college. It has benefited me in doing my job, but has not benefitted my career.
There would have been more advantage in not going to college, stacking 5 years of income and the work experience.

College was a "good" thing for me as I consider myself to be a high-function person, but the benefit of college has not met the expectations of cost/benefit returns.
That was college costs from many years ago. Now that it's 4 and 5 times the cost, and the job prospects are significantly dimished, it seems that the cost is a big headwind to the benefits, if any.

College is certainly not a benefit when you get a dregree and are forced to take a job based around minimum wage.