Working with off-shore workers?

[Frank]

Does anyone else deal with this? It seems that some of our India crew that live in India comes into work at what would be like 5am CST, lunch about 10:30 - 11:30, and they are out the door all at one time trying to catch their train or cab at 1:30 CST. IF they miss it, supposedly it is like a 5 hour cab ride or something. Its not consistent though. Some do this, but not others. The others aren't quite as bad but they leave at like 2:30. Trying to get them to communicate with their US peers and leaders when they are going to be taking off is a whole other matter. Sometimes they leave an out of office, sometimes not and you are trying to figure out WTF they are. Had a couple just completely go AWOL for a couple of weeks. One guy announced vacation and never came back. Heck, I don't know if they found another job, got sick, died or what. Their leadership buffers all that and won't answer when asked. Also not buying the supposed training or experience they claim to have.

[ceyko]

What I've noticed (which is not in relation to what you're saying really, but you're supporting my observations/experience), is that any company interested in quality service/customer service - regrets going to India for such things.

There are a 1001 hurdles and a lot of companies lose money in the long run. Due to...

-Start costs
-Long term maintenance costs of infrastructure
-Man hours lost due to the disconnect between "them" and "us" (i.e. mistakes due to misunderstandings, frustration and longer conversations...etc..etc)
-Loss of customers
-Lower CSAT
-Some companies lose personnel. They leave on principle alone. Hell, I did it once about 7 years ago. Found out I was going to setup network infrastructure to outsource to India and that was a BIG straw that broke the camel's back.

Generally it's not all it's cracked up to be in a lot of cases.

[Skidmark]

From what I understand the typical large corporation buildings in India are sitting alongside each other. If they have a shitty day they'll just walk across the street and get a job at another place.

I've worked with folks in Brazil, India, and Malaysia. The folks in Brazil are more similar to American workers, but that comes with a price. Out of India or Malaysia i'd rather work with Malaysia.

[Frank]

From what I understand the typical large corporation buildings in India are sitting alongside each other. If they have a shitty day they'll just walk across the street and get a job at another place.

I've worked with folks in Brazil, India, and Malaysia. The folks in Brazil are more similar to American workers, but that comes with a price. Out of India or Malaysia i'd rather work with Malaysia.

Agreed. I miss that show "Outsourced". I miss fine poon Rebecca Hazelwood. I think there were a few clues of how it really is there. They had an episode where it talked about these companies in the same building and people would change jobs company to company, floor to floor and how hard it was to keep someone really good.

I have had Brazil and Costa Rican and both are great, but a lot of holidays, sometimes in the middle of the week. I think in US we get like 11 paid holidays where some countries it was like up to 26 paid holidays which can get aggravating.

[Skidmark]

Agreed. I miss that show "Outsourced". I miss fine poon Rebecca Hazelwood. I think there were a few clues of how it really is there. They had an episode where it talked about these companies in the same building and people would change jobs company to company, floor to floor and how hard it was to keep someone really good.

I have had Brazil and Costa Rican and both are great, but a lot of holidays, sometimes in the middle of the week. I think in US we get like 11 paid holidays where some countries it was like up to 26 paid holidays which can get aggravating.

Yep, even Canada has a ridiculous number of labor laws, etc. We don't really seem to have a whole lot here to protect us workers.

Ceyko really has an understanding of the big picture. I agree with him and I think that the countries we are outsourcing to do not yet have enough experience to be able to strategize(sp?) an issue.

There are some exceptions of course and while it's impressive nearly everyone has a masters degree, it seems they have trouble with taking something from start to finish. They seem to need someone to tell them exactly which task to do and how to do it, with step by step pictures.

Eventually, when they have experience equiv US, EMEA, etc, then we'll be in big trouble.

For now, like Ceyko was going at, at the beginning you see a big decrease in cost going from here to there, but in the end, you will pay the same or more and end up with a crappier service.

[01-GATOR]

The company I work for has an office in Panama. They are good workers but have 30 days vac and 18 sick days plus all the holidays they have. Don't try and get anything important done in Nov it wont get done. It's independence month for them not day lol.

[Frank]

Ever heard of Bratislava? Yep, somehow there is outsourcing we are doing there too. Makes me think of those Capital One commercials with "Peggy" answering the phone.

They have found some India outsourcing companies are starting to outsource to Mexico and even back into the US for things like telemarketing.

I still question what measures a degree? I mean, how are degrees in various countries and educational institutions compared fairly? How do we know a Masters degree from a university in India isn't from their equivalent of a Kaplan College or University of Phoenix or other for-profit or degree mill?

[Skidmark]

Ever heard of Bratislava?

I still question what measures a degree? I mean, how are degrees in various countries and educational institutions compared fairly? How do we know a Masters degree from a university in India isn't from their equivalent of a Kaplan College or University of Phoenix or other for-profit or degree mill?

Never heard of Bratislava.

That's a good point. I know that in regards to some of the certs we had to get, like ITIL, here we do the leg work and then go take the exam in an approved testing center.

The testing center has multiple PCs, all enclosed in private cubes, no talking, etc.

From what I heard in India when they had to do the cert it was a classroom type atmosphere where the test was done in the open, together.

Back in school, I sure did think group tests were much easier...

[bcoop]

Interesting opinions in here. My brother is currently outsourcing the Underwriting department for the mortgage conglomerate he works for. He will eventually outsource other departments as well, so he's the "big bad wolf" so to speak.

[Skidmark]

Interesting opinions in here. My brother is currently outsourcing the Underwriting department for the mortgage conglomerate he works for. He will eventually outsource other departments as well, so he's the "big bad wolf" so to speak.

Eh, it's a job... you work to make money. If he does not do it someone else will step up and put that money in their pocket. I don't see him in any negative light.

Pretty much, it's the companies leadership's decision. No different than laying folks off due to budget issues.

I do think though that outsourcing will bite companies in the ass and they will need to bring jobs back to the US.

[bcoop]

Pretty much, it's the companies leadership's decision. No different than laying folks off due to budget issues.

Right. He's leadership, it was his decision. Some of the departments won't be touched, because they are too important. But he knows what he is in for, and that many are going to hate him once they find out what is going on. I old him to look at the bright side. Think of all the fake friends he's going to make, and the whiskey gifts should start rolling in any day now.

[Skidmark]

Right. He's leadership, it was his decision. Some of the departments won't be touched, because they are too important. But he knows what he is in for, and that many are going to hate him once they find out what is going on. I old him to look at the bright side. Think of all the fake friends he's going to make, and the whiskey gifts should start rolling in any day now.

In this day you have to really think about your job and your daily duties. At least in the IT world, I sure as hell do not want my daily duties being a repeatable task.

If you can write down the steps of your job on paper in detail to where a 5 year old can do it, it'll probably be outsourced.

[MustangPoser]

I have an assistant in the Philippines. She works from her home and is available 10am - 6pm. She takes care of all of the work that would bog down my day/a project. Advanced Office, Basic HTML, trained her to do the job how I like it done.. I use a custom built project management system for task assignment and for time tracking.

I have tried India. Fuck that. My best friend works in outsourcing and turned me on to the philippines. They speak English, there is still a language barrier but it is nothing compared to dealing with India.

They are a very grateful and respectful people IMO. The arrangement works for me, I couldn't imagine outsourcing a whole department. Outsourcing for me works when there is a clear set of tasks and requirements.

A Filipino assistance will be about $500/month full time (including 13th month). I think any professional could benefit from a virtual assistant and find they will carry their own weight.

Back to indians. They IRK THE HELL OUT OF ME. I don't know what it is, but every time I deal with one of them I want to get on a plane to India and just strangle them.

[Skidmark]

[Ted]

Offshore workers be damned.