Looks like Matts pension plan is on hold...

[Forever_frost]

What you pay in should be the only thing that's factored in. The unions and the city can come to a sustainable, set, matching employer contribution to the plan, and then employees can contribute what they want. Then, when it comes time to retire, you get (your contributions + employer contributions)*actual return over the course of your employment. That's a grossly simplified model, but the principle is there, essentially.

Sounds good to me. City servants can only draw what is available and that they have paid in.

[Slowhand]

When private entities agreed to pensions they can no longer sustain, the taxpayers are often still on the hook courtesy of the federal pension guaranty program.

They also often get (got) backed into those unsustainable pensions by the unreasonable demands of unions. Private firms aren't generally in the business of giving away more than they absolutely have to. One of the big components of that federal pension guaranty program is preventing unions or employers (by way of being backed into a corner) from increasing benefits in underfunded funds.

Moreover, the guaranty program has done nothing to slow the number of private companies abandoning pensions altogether. 401(k)s just make more sense, period.

[Chas_svo]

Cost of living is about 33% higher than where I live in East Texas, but I don't foresee paying for all the conveniences that we pay for now, so I would say 33% is a bit high.

Living conditions are considerably more simplistic than the average DFW (Garland, Oak Cliff, Greenville excluded). I've heard that St. Croix is the whiter side of the islands and the recent layoffs will have properties going for cheap. We will likely end up in St. Thomas where we have more friends.

Women are plentiful!!! There is a fresh batch with every cruise ship!

Another derail...

I just got back from 7 day cruise thru the South Caribbean. St Thomas was very nice, but I like St Lucia better. Honestly, I am in the same place as many here. I could be happy in a hut on any of the islands, and very happy with a decent place there with a fishing boat.

Can't happen soon enough.

Get back to bashing Matt...

[sc281]

Ain't it funny that almost without exception that the people here who get unsustainable benefits are all for it and the people who have to pay for those unsustainable benefits are all against it?

Funny how that works out.

"Those who rob Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul."

[The King]

Ain't it funny that almost without exception that the people here who get unsustainable benefits are all for it and the people who have to pay for those unsustainable benefits are all against it?

Funny how that works out.

Sour grapes. I don't worry myself with what other people get as far as pensions.

[Slowhand]

Sour grapes.

Is that really all you have to contribute to the conversation? This is as much an issue of the state of the economy in this country as bailouts and welfare programs are.

I don't care what other people are making with their pensions, but I do care how much my governments are spending to fund those pensions. Unfortunately, the two are directly and entirely correlated.

[sc281]

Sour grapes. I don't worry myself with what other people get as far as pensions.

That's cause youll be dead before the bill comes due. The generations that follow yours are stuck paying for your "bennies"

[The King]

Is that really all you have to contribute to the conversation? This is as much an issue of the state of the economy in this country as bailouts and welfare programs are.

I don't care what other people are making with their pensions, but I do care how much my governments are spending to fund those pensions. Unfortunately, the two are directly and entirely correlated.

That's all that needs to be contributed to this conversation. Don't be concerned with what Matt or me or anyone else has as far as pension benefits, because that's between employer and employee. If they are not fulfilled so be it.

Personally I prefer the 401K route to being my primary source of retirement income, but to each their own.

[Slowhand]

That's all that needs to be contributed to this conversation. Don't be concerned with what Matt or me or anyone else has as far as pension benefits, because that's between employer and employee. If they are not fulfilled so be it.

Personally I prefer the 401K route to being my primary source of retirement income, but to each their own.

But citizens are the de facto shareholders of a government...

[The King]

That's cause youll be dead before the bill comes due. The generations that follow yours are stuck paying for your "bennies"

No, it's because I really don't concern myself with other peoples "bennies".

[sc281]

No, it's because I really don't concern myself with other peoples "bennies".

What about other people's obligation to pay for those bennies? Not concerned there either?

Where is that money gonna come from? How much will the people have to be taxed to supportt? Who's gonna pay for my generations bennies when all the taxes collected went to pay for yours?

Your generation straddled obligation after obligation to the back of mine with no regard to how it could be paid for and no regard to how crippling it will be, and your generation couldn't give a flyin fuck about it.

As long as yall get yours, right?

[dcs13]

Actually with GASB, the cities are now REQUIRED to fully fund the pension plans at all times. Ft. Worth does have a good plan 8.73 paid by employee and 20% match by the city. MOST cities in Texas are members of TMRS and most of those are 7/14 plans. ALL these funds are PRIVATELY invested. TMRS is VERY solvent and their investments have done very well.
Also, most of these employees do not pay into social security. This IS their retirement plan.
Could they do better on their own ? Yes some could, with proper investment advice.
IMHO, Ft. Worth could drop back to a 7/14 plan and be competitive without issue.

[Broncojohnny]

Don't be concerned with what Matt or me or anyone else has as far as pension benefits, because that's between employer and employee. If they are not fulfilled so be it.

I totally agree, can you stop local government from asking for me to bail them out with federal money? Same goes for private industry. Until that happens it is every taxpayer's business what is going on in these plans.

[Broncojohnny]

Actually with GASB, the cities are now REQUIRED to fully fund the pension plans at all times. Ft. Worth does have a good plan 8.73 paid by employee and 20% match by the city. MOST cities in Texas are members of TMRS and most of those are 7/14 plans. ALL these funds are PRIVATELY invested. TMRS is VERY solvent and their investments have done very well.
Also, most of these employees do not pay into social security. This IS their retirement plan.
Could they do better on their own ? Yes some could, with proper investment advice.
IMHO, Ft. Worth could drop back to a 7/14 plan and be competitive without issue.

"Fully fund" is meaningless because it still depends on an assumption of what return they will get on their contributions.

I have decided to retire with $4 billion in the bank and my plan is fully funded. Now I just need to get a 178% return every year for the next 40 years....

[The King]

What about other people's obligation to pay for those bennies? Not concerned there either?

Where is that money gonna come from? How much will the people have to be taxed to supportt? Who's gonna pay for my generations bennies when all the taxes collected went to pay for yours?

Your generation straddled obligation after obligation to the back of mine with no regard to how it could be paid for and no regard to how crippling it will be, and your generation couldn't give a flyin fuck about it.

As long as yall get yours, right?

Calm down and get to work securing your own retirement so you'll "get yours". Or, get all bitter about it being someone elses fault that you're not going to "get yours" and wind up with nothing. It is always someone elses fault now isn't it?