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  • Question for the Navy guys

    Wouldn't the fire effect the pressure hull and make this a danger to operate?

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    Nuclear Sub May Have to Be Scrapped After Fire

    May 25, 2012

    Associated Press| by David Sharp
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    6 Injured in Fire Aboard Submarine

    KITTERY, Maine -- Even before the Navy completed its first damage assessment, the severity of a fire that swept through a nuclear-powered submarine in dry dock at Portsmouth Naval Shipyard triggered questions about whether the USS Miami can be salvaged.

    The USS Miami's nuclear propulsion was spared from the intense blaze but some forward compartments including living quarters, command and control, and torpedo room suffered extensive damage, officials said Thursday.

    The Navy was unable to complete a formal assessment Thursday but the damage was severe enough to raise questions about whether costly repairs would make sense for the 22-year-old Los Angeles-class attack submarine.

    "The duration of the fire suggests extensive damage that could render the vessel useless. These submarines were designed decades ago. So they're no longer state of the art," said Loren Thompson, defense analyst at the Arlington, Va.-based Lexington Institute. "If this vessel returns to service, I will be amazed."

    Working in the submarine's favor is the fact that workers had removed some equipment and gutted part of the vessel during the retrofit, said U.S. Rep. Chellie Pingree of Maine after meeting with the shipyard commander.

    Rear Adm. Richard Breckenridge, commander of Submarine Group Two in Groton, Conn., where the USS Miami is based, told reporters on Thursday that it was premature to say whether the submarine could be salvaged.

    If it's scrapped, it would mean the loss of a ship that cost about $900 million at the time to build. The U.S. Navy's newest attack submarines, the Virginia-class, are even more expensive at about $2.6 billion apiece.

    The fire broke out Wednesday evening while the Miami was on a 20-month stay at the shipyard for an overhaul, and it took firefighters from more than a dozen departments until Thursday morning to douse the fire, described as intense and smoky.

    Pingree described it as a "hot scary mess."

    "It takes a lot of guts to into a burning building. But the idea of going into a submarine full of hot toxic smoke -- that's real courage," she said.

    Two crew members, three shipyard firefighters and two civilian firefighters were hurt, but their injuries were minor, officials said.

    Officials were waiting Thursday to begin venting smoke and noxious fumes so workers go inside the submarine to assess damage.

    Workers had to let fire-damaged compartments cool enough for fresh air to be safely introduced without risk of another fire.

    There were no details on the cause of the fire, but Breckenridge promised that there will be a thorough investigation.

    Firefighters isolated the flames so they would not spread to nuclear propulsion spaces at the rear of the submarine. There was nuclear fuel on board the sub, but the reactor has been shut down for two months and was unaffected.

    The rear compartments including the nuclear propulsion unit remained habitable, and crew members never left that part of the sub during the fire, Breckenridge said.

    Nonetheless, the blaze was stubborn.

    "The fire spread to spaces within the submarine that were difficult to access, presenting a challenging situation for initial responders. But they persevered in incredible heat and smoke conditions, demonstrating exceptional courage," the admiral said.

    Residents reported hearing sirens from fire trucks and ambulances throughout the night, and the smoke spread over the area.

    "It smelled like plastic burning," said Janet Howe of Kittery, who lives three-quarters-of-a-mile from the shipyard.

    Reporters were not allowed onto the base to see the submarine Thursday. But Pingree and others who viewed the vessel said there were no outward signs of damage, because the fire was contained inside the 360-foot-long hull.

    It was unclear how many people were aboard the vessel or what type of work was being done when the fire started. The submarine, commissioned in 1990, has a crew of 13 and 120 enlisted personnel. It arrived at the shipyard March 1.
    I wear a Fez. Fez-es are cool

  • #2
    I guess I dont understand what you're asking. The pressure hills get repaired all the time if needed. Hell, my sub had 2 6ft cracks!! Plus if any kind of "expansion" happened, they are designed for that by being built out of HY80 steel.

    Oh and LOL at "nuclear fuel"....
    Putting warheads on foreheads since 2004

    Pro-Touring Build

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    • #3
      I'm completely ignorant on subs but wouldn't the intense heat of the fire (melted aluminum fixtures and the bulkheads) and then flash cooled with the water from the firehoses, mess with the tempering of a hull that has to take a LOT of pressure? Create weak points in the metal? I know if you take a blade and heat it and then cool it rapidly you're going to get crystalization and create flaws.
      I wear a Fez. Fez-es are cool

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      • #4
        I see whatcha mean...... I dunno
        Putting warheads on foreheads since 2004

        Pro-Touring Build

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        • #5
          ah fuck it, it's a la class. retire that old bitch! lol

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Forever_frost View Post
            I'm completely ignorant on subs but wouldn't the intense heat of the fire (melted aluminum fixtures and the bulkheads) and then flash cooled with the water from the firehoses, mess with the tempering of a hull that has to take a LOT of pressure? Create weak points in the metal? I know if you take a blade and heat it and then cool it rapidly you're going to get crystalization and create flaws.
            This is true, but you have to think about how hot you would have had to get the hull, and how thick it is. The hull on a 688 is right around 2", and it takes a long time to heat that up. I don't believe that the hull got hot enough to mess with the tempering of it. ALTHOUGH..... I heard that the internal temps got hot enough to melt aluminum, which is around 1500 degrees. Copper is below that temp, so all of the copper and aluminum (piping, bulkheads, racks) is probably melted. We have a guy from our office driving up there Monday to assess their diesel, so I'll have a better idea of how bad it is when he gets back next week. I did hear that the entire FWD compt is rusted up already. Hell I heard two different reports, don't know which to believe about how much water there was in the boat. I heard one that said that there was water half way up the lower level, and I also heard that it was just above middle level. Both situations are really bad. In the lower level you have your life support equipment, and the torpedo room, along with the diesel generator. I don't really see them coming out of this one, but the Navy has done some dumb stuff with subs here recently. Like the San Fransisco that hit an underwater sea mountain doing a flank bell (as fast as it'll go). Yep, they fixed that one. They had to cut the WHOLE front end off of a DECOMming unit and welded it onto the San Fran. Sounds simple, but if you think about all of the equipment that had to be tied into each other, and the cost of doing it. And the San Fran was pretty ancient when it happend IIRC. Hope this helps with your curiousity.
            04 2.6 KB'd Cobra!

            Originally posted by Sean88gt
            There is something about her that just makes my dick completely take over any thought process. If Russell Brand were on top of her, I'd fuck him just to say I pushed a dick inside of her.

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            • #7
              I'm an airdale don't speak sub.

              It was caused by a vacum cleaner of all things.

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              • #8
                Yeah, which just goes to show that field day is the devil!
                04 2.6 KB'd Cobra!

                Originally posted by Sean88gt
                There is something about her that just makes my dick completely take over any thought process. If Russell Brand were on top of her, I'd fuck him just to say I pushed a dick inside of her.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Field day in dry dock is a lost cause anyways.
                  Putting warheads on foreheads since 2004

                  Pro-Touring Build

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                  • #10
                    From what I have seen of subs and ships, what is there to burn for the most part in an area out side of an engine room where it might be oily? Looks like metal walls, wiring is in pipes, right? Don't they use flame retardant materials on cloth and such?

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                    • #11
                      It's the dust that gets on everything. That and lagging.
                      Putting warheads on foreheads since 2004

                      Pro-Touring Build

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Frank View Post
                        From what I have seen of subs and ships, what is there to burn for the most part in an area out side of an engine room where it might be oily? Looks like metal walls, wiring is in pipes, right? Don't they use flame retardant materials on cloth and such?
                        Most of the bad fires start in the battery. Which is very bad to say the least. But you have berthing (mattresses), electrical equipment, like Z06 said, lagging which is covering the entire inside of the hull and a lot of the piping. And another bad thing about this one was that there was already a hull cut in the fwd compt. and that with the combination of a hatch being opened caused a chimney effect. Pretty much the fresh air from the hull cut just fueled the fire.
                        04 2.6 KB'd Cobra!

                        Originally posted by Sean88gt
                        There is something about her that just makes my dick completely take over any thought process. If Russell Brand were on top of her, I'd fuck him just to say I pushed a dick inside of her.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by slowyellow View Post
                          This is true, but you have to think about how hot you would have had to get the hull, and how thick it is. The hull on a 688 is right around 2", and it takes a long time to heat that up. I don't believe that the hull got hot enough to mess with the tempering of it. ALTHOUGH..... I heard that the internal temps got hot enough to melt aluminum, which is around 1500 degrees. Copper is below that temp, so all of the copper and aluminum (piping, bulkheads, racks) is probably melted. We have a guy from our office driving up there Monday to assess their diesel, so I'll have a better idea of how bad it is when he gets back next week. I did hear that the entire FWD compt is rusted up already. Hell I heard two different reports, don't know which to believe about how much water there was in the boat. I heard one that said that there was water half way up the lower level, and I also heard that it was just above middle level. Both situations are really bad. In the lower level you have your life support equipment, and the torpedo room, along with the diesel generator. I don't really see them coming out of this one, but the Navy has done some dumb stuff with subs here recently. Like the San Fransisco that hit an underwater sea mountain doing a flank bell (as fast as it'll go). Yep, they fixed that one. They had to cut the WHOLE front end off of a DECOMming unit and welded it onto the San Fran. Sounds simple, but if you think about all of the equipment that had to be tied into each other, and the cost of doing it. And the San Fran was pretty ancient when it happend IIRC. Hope this helps with your curiousity.
                          Isn't this ship almost 20 years? That's 20 years behind tech and has been on fire. Make it into a monument or sell it to a private buyer and build another
                          I wear a Fez. Fez-es are cool

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Forever_frost View Post
                            Isn't this ship almost 20 years? That's 20 years behind tech and has been on fire. Make it into a monument or sell it to a private buyer and build another
                            Yeah, I believe that it's a little over 20 years. But we don't sell our 88's. We decom them and "cut them into razor blades". But I just got done doing an inspection on one of the new VA class ships last week and good god... It's so night and day with a lot of the technology it's amazing. They drive the thing with a damn joy stick for one! And the periscopes are no longer the ones that people are used to seeing in the movies, hell, they don't even protrude through the hull. And for anybody that knows subs, control is in middle level.

                            Sorry for the off topic rant, but I just thought it was interesting. But I do believe that they should scrap it, and there are plenty being built already! I think that the US just doesn't like to see something so fucked up and then not fix it. I don't understand it, waste of money IMO.
                            04 2.6 KB'd Cobra!

                            Originally posted by Sean88gt
                            There is something about her that just makes my dick completely take over any thought process. If Russell Brand were on top of her, I'd fuck him just to say I pushed a dick inside of her.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Nah it's on topic. I'm always interested in new tech and subs are pretty neat. I couldn't get in a dildo full of seamen but that's just me. They're still neat
                              I wear a Fez. Fez-es are cool

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