For Frost

[exlude]

They can, but the Geneva law doesn't. Interpretation versus actual law

There's no difference in practice, the US has a pretty long standing history of not letting most cases get prosecuted on an international level.

[Forever_frost]

what constitutes you droping 3 ranks like the example you provided?

If I'm an E5, Sargent living off post, I'm making 2662.20 roughly. If I fuck up and get knocked down to E1, my expenses are still the same and keep in mind, yesterday I was making 2662. Today my pay is 1491.00.

And that's my pay until I earn my way back up to E5. But to get to Sargent (E5) you have to pass a board. Which means studying for tests, going before the board, getting them to test you and them saying you're worthy of the rank, THEN going to school for it and if you graduate, THEN you get your 5 back.

[Forever_frost]

There's no difference in practice, the US has a pretty long standing history of not letting most cases get prosecuted on an international level.

True, I'm just letting you know Geneva doesn't speak to insurgents. You are getting into case law versus actual text. Not something I'm prepared to do this late on Ambien with another service member. I prefer to give you 100%.

[jewozzy]

If I'm an E5, Sargent living off post, I'm making 2662.20 roughly. If I fuck up and get knocked down to E1, my expenses are still the same and keep in mind, yesterday I was making 2662. Today my pay is 1491.00.

And that's my pay until I earn my way back up to E5. But to get to Sargent (E5) you have to pass a board. Which means studying for tests, going before the board, getting them to test you and them saying you're worthy of the rank, THEN going to school for it and if you graduate, THEN you get your 5 back.

im asking what kind of fuck up will drop you that far?

[exlude]

im asking what kind of fuck up will drop you that far?

Anything that merits are Article 15 can get your rank dropped. That goes from fraternization to disobeying orders to not showing up to formation to conduct unbecoming.

[exlude]

True, I'm just letting you know Geneva doesn't speak to insurgents. You are getting into case law versus actual text. Not something I'm prepared to do this late on Ambien with another service member. I prefer to give you 100%.

Haha, thus why I said case law :P

I think our disconnect is where I said it's in black and white in the regs/UCMJ...but I was mostly referring to fraternization when I said that.

[jewozzy]

Anything that merits are Article 15 can get your rank dropped. That goes from fraternization to disobeying orders to not showing up to formation to conduct unbecoming.

so late to formation can drop you that far? or is it the more harsh the "crime" the higher the drop?

[Osiris]

Eh, adults having relationships. However, they violated the rules, strip them of rank, reduce them to E1 and either discharge them dishonorably or finish up their contract and then give them a general.

Let's see a cop call for that kind of punishment on another cop.

Don't be a prick. I've always called for punishment for other police when they fuck up.

[Forever_frost]

Don't be a prick. I've always called for punishment for other police when they fuck up.

I don't recall mentioning your name though I do appreciate the name you've called me. Something hitting a bit close?

[Forever_frost]

so late to formation can drop you that far? or is it the more harsh the "crime" the higher the drop?

Honestly? Yes. You can be Article 15'd for a lot of stuff depending on how much your chain of command doesn't like you. And loss of rank/pay isn't the worst that can happen. You also can be confined to quarters, literally chained to a desk (did that), sent to jail, extra duty. Hell, I've seen some very imaginative punishments. Had a guy in Basic who made sheet ropes so he could sneak out of our 3rd floor barracks to the ground to hit the PX to buy snuff to sell it.

I remember him being Article 15'd, loss of all pay and privledges, a bunch of extra duty and had to continue to train with us until graduation at which point they discharged him for failure to conform. He also lost his bunk and had to sleep next to the DS' desk so the fire guard could lay hands on him and keep account.

[Chili]

Honestly? Yes. You can be Article 15'd for a lot of stuff depending on how much your chain of command doesn't like you. And loss of rank/pay isn't the worst that can happen. You also can be confined to quarters, literally chained to a desk (did that), sent to jail, extra duty. Hell, I've seen some very imaginative punishments. Had a guy in Basic who made sheet ropes so he could sneak out of our 3rd floor barracks to the ground to hit the PX to buy snuff to sell it.

I remember him being Article 15'd, loss of all pay and privledges, a bunch of extra duty and had to continue to train with us until graduation at which point they discharged him for failure to conform. He also lost his bunk and had to sleep next to the DS' desk so the fire guard could lay hands on him and keep account.

Granted, I have been out for a while, but when I was in an Article 15 could only drop an NCO 1 grade. They could take at least a couple weeks pay and something like 30 days extra duty.

We had a guy in basic that did not graduate, and had to pull road guard for us on our way to the ceremony.. Then he was put on KP until he was discharged.

But, given the severity of charges, these guys aren't getting an article 15, rather a court martial.

[Forever_frost]

I had an NCO who punched another NCO and went from 5P to E1. And had done it twice.

[Forever_frost]

Granted, I have been out for a while, but when I was in an Article 15 could only drop an NCO 1 grade. They could take at least a couple weeks pay and something like 30 days extra duty.

We had a guy in basic that did not graduate, and had to pull road guard for us on our way to the ceremony.. Then he was put on KP until he was discharged.

But, given the severity of charges, these guys aren't getting an article 15, rather a court martial.

Oh yeah, especially with Obama? They got court martialed and probably had the book thrown at them.

[exlude]

so late to formation can drop you that far? or is it the more harsh the "crime" the higher the drop?

It really depends on the commander holding the hearing, but yes it can. There are limits on the Art. 15 and if the Soldier feels the punishment is too harsh they can elect for court martial, but the maximum punishments for court martial are far harder.

[exlude]

Granted, I have been out for a while, but when I was in an Article 15 could only drop an NCO 1 grade. They could take at least a couple weeks pay and something like 30 days extra duty.

We had a guy in basic that did not graduate, and had to pull road guard for us on our way to the ceremony.. Then he was put on KP until he was discharged.

But, given the severity of charges, these guys aren't getting an article 15, rather a court martial.

For Article 15s, the limit is 1 grade reduction for NCOs and multiple reduction for E4 and below. Special Court Martial is the first level where you can go for a full bust for an NCO. I have heard, however, of multiple Art 15s being brought against an NCO back to back for different, but related offenses for a multiple bust.