Interesting information for your perusal...

[dville_gt]

Exactly! That's an honorable profession. So what's wrong with fixing somebody's car so that they can get to work the next day because of me? There's honor in that. Yeah there's honor in that ... and there's honor in taking that 40 minute train ride so those college kids can come in in the morning and have clean floors and those waste baskets emptied.

Good Will Hunting?

[AdRock]

X2

Dont like it? Do something else. Hell you get 3 months paid vacation annually, work 8-3, etc. Boo hoo.

You have no idea what the fuck you are talking about.

[CJ]

But, what if the class WAS Rocket Science?

Now that is a specialized skill required specialized education and that demands a premium on salary and I completely agree with that. But your average public school teacher is not a specialized skill. Your average graduate could teach just about any class.

[46Tbird]

U.S. teachers spend over 1000 hours per year teaching

Uh, most Americans spend 2000 hours per year working (40x(52-2)).

This is between 61 and 65% of what average U.S. employees make in other jobs with similar education and experience.

So you get 65% of the pay for doing 50% of the work? Sign me up!

[CJ]

Uh, most Americans spend 2000 hours per year working (40x(52-2)).


So you get 65% of the pay for doing 50% of the work? Sign me up!

2080 hours a year is standard minimum for a full time employee.

[yellowstang]

Uh, most Americans spend 1200 hours per year working (40x(52-2)) and 800 hours posting here.


So you get 65% of the pay for doing 50% of the work? Sign me up!

Fixed.

[Ratt]

Oh get over yourself. I've subbed at AISD highschools when I was between jobs. It isn't rocket science. Your average intelligence person who has a degree can teach a classroom full of kids.

I'm not a teacher, nor do I want to be. There's no way I would ever want to deal with kids today. Regardless, you said yourself that average intelligence people who have a degree can teach a classroom full of kids, and that's not everyone.

[Ruffdaddy]

There's not a bit of truth in that statement.

Lots of people can recite the works of smart people. Not everyone...but most.

[CJ]

I'm not a teacher, nor do I want to be. There's no way I would ever want to deal with kids today. Regardless, you said yourself that average intelligence people who have a degree can teach a classroom full of kids, and that's not everyone.

What I'm saying is it's not this incredibly skilled profession teachers seem to believe it is worth - demanding 80k+ a year salaries. I understand and completely respect teachers and what they do for our community, but it is not a skilled enough profession to merit the kinds of salaries I see them demanding constantly 40-55k is a very fair salary for that profession in my opinion - no they don't get paid for 2-3 months out of the year. But they are making 40-55k in that 9-10 month span, which is a very sizable sum. They can opt to divide that out over 12 months or take a summer job. Either way it's a very lax schedule no matter how you look at it. Much better than any job I've worked. Public employees should never make more than private employees in the same field in any circumstance.

As far as college my experience with professors is they are over educated and under experienced. Most of them are failures at their profession, and the only job they could land was teaching the books to other people. The very best professors I had in college were retired businessmen, and previous mayors/public officials which had real world experience. More and more often in today's universities the professors have zero real world experience, and teach based on theory and conjecture - Obama is a perfect example. This is not the kind of teachers we need - they are damaging our future, not helping it. A masters degree should not make you worth more, the experience you actually possess and have to share to students is your value.

[Cooter]

Lots of people can recite the works of smart people. Not everyone...but most.

yeah, because everybody is an english/literature teacher

[Chili]

Uh, most Americans spend 2000 hours per year working (40x(52-2)).


So you get 65% of the pay for doing 50% of the work? Sign me up!

I believe the 1,000 hours was referring to actual class time in front of students. Based on the preceding statement, and adding in professional development and required continuing education, that puts them right about at that 2080 hours mark.

"These teachers spend an average of 52 hours per week on teaching work—37 hours of required school work, 5 hours on compensated non-instructional work, and 10 hours of non-compensated school work."

That's not to say all teachers spend that much time obviously.

As far as pay, I know Leah isn't bitching, because teachers make decent money in the DFW area, along with most major cities. The teachers really getting screwed are those in more rural areas, they make like 30% - 40% less.

[Leah]

And the truth is just about anyone can teach.

Oh get over yourself. I've subbed at AISD highschools when I was between jobs. It isn't rocket science. Your average intelligence person who has a degree can teach a classroom full of kids.

Now that is a specialized skill required specialized education and that demands a premium on salary and I completely agree with that. But your average public school teacher is not a specialized skill. Your average graduate could teach just about any class.

What I'm saying is it's not this incredibly skilled profession teachers seem to believe it is worth - demanding 80k+ a year salaries. I understand and completely respect teachers and what they do for our community, but it is not a skilled enough profession to merit the kinds of salaries I see them demanding constantly 40-55k is a very fair salary for that profession in my opinion - no they don't get paid for 2-3 months out of the year. But they are making 40-55k in that 9-10 month span, which is a very sizable sum. They can opt to divide that out over 12 months or take a summer job. Either way it's a very lax schedule no matter how you look at it. Much better than any job I've worked. Public employees should never make more than private employees in the same field in any circumstance.

As far as college my experience with professors is they are over educated and under experienced. Most of them are failures at their profession, and the only job they could land was teaching the books to other people. The very best professors I had in college were retired businessmen, and previous mayors/public officials which had real world experience. More and more often in today's universities the professors have zero real world experience, and teach based on theory and conjecture - Obama is a perfect example. This is not the kind of teachers we need - they are damaging our future, not helping it. A masters degree should not make you worth more, the experience you actually possess and have to share to students is your value.

CJ, I usually don't disagree with things you say, but you are very wrong. Subbing is completely different than running a classroom. It's not just having an average IQ. It's about being able to connect with the students, find what motivates them and enhance it and to be able to make, even the most boring of subjects, interesting and meaningful.

Are there crappy teachers who are just in it for the paycheck and the breaks? Absofuckinglutely. Is the system flawed in the way it evaluates and keeps teachers? Absofuckinglutely. Is the corporate world sometimes just as screwed up? Sure. You can't make a broad statement like that. Not everyone can teach and it IS a specialized skill. I find it funny (and insulting) when people say things like that. I've worked very hard and had a lot of training to do what I do. I do take it personally as it is not just a job, it's my life.

Sooooo, you're willing to take a pay cut?

I've pretty much had a pay cut every year for the last 3 years. I'm making less now than I was then due to increases in insurance, dues, budget not covering materials, supplies, etc that I have to buy out of pocket, so yes, if need be.

[Forever_frost]

If we did away with tenure, returned the education systems to the states and put in voucher systems so that teachers would have to compete with each other to provide the best education, we may get somewhere. The majority of your kids can't add the same number twice and get the same answer? You're gone.

Your kids can't read? Gone.

You teach social studies/government and our kids have no clue about the constitution or federalist/anti federalist papers? Gone.

[Leah]

If we did away with tenure, returned the education systems to the states and put in voucher systems so that teachers would have to compete with each other to provide the best education, we may get somewhere. The majority of your kids can't add the same number twice and get the same answer? You're gone.

Your kids can't read? Gone.

You teach social studies/government and our kids have no clue about the constitution or federalist/anti federalist papers? Gone.

What about those kids that don't give a shit and won't do anything no matter what you do? Should teachers be penalized because a kid's an asshole? To hear the way you guys tell it, it's all the teacher's fault. That's the mentality that has put us in the position we are in now.

Example: Today was the exit level TAKS ELA test. My mother is a teacher in Southlake and I just got off the phone with her. She had a kid in her room testing (not one of her students, just one assigned to her class). He was just sitting there doing nothing. She walked by his desk and noticed he had everything bubbled in, but had not started his writing samples or essay. Mind you, you have to pass this test to get a diploma. She asked him about it and his response was, "Yeah, I'm just not feeling it today". She calls the VP-she pulls him out and talks to him, he's still 'not feeling it'. They call the parents and at this time, my mom has noticed that he hasn't even broken the seal on his booklet-he just bubbled shit in. He ended up not doing jack and turning it in knowing he was going to fail.

Should his teachers be canned because he didn't fucking try? In your world, they would be. I wish there was such an easy fix, but when you start making blanket statements like that, problems don't get fixed...they get compounded.

[red89notch]

What about those kids that don't give a shit and won't do anything no matter what you do? Should teachers be penalized because a kid's an asshole? To hear the way you guys tell it, it's all the teacher's fault. That's the mentality that has put us in the position we are in now.

Example: Today was the exit level TAKS ELA test. My mother is a teacher in Southlake and I just got off the phone with her. She had a kid in her room testing (not one of her students, just one assigned to her class). He was just sitting there doing nothing. She walked by his desk and noticed he had everything bubbled in, but had not started his writing samples or essay. Mind you, you have to pass this test to get a diploma. She asked him about it and his response was, "Yeah, I'm just not feeling it today". She calls the VP-she pulls him out and talks to him, he's still 'not feeling it'. They call the parents and at this time, my mom has noticed that he hasn't even broken the seal on his booklet-he just bubbled shit in. He ended up not doing jack and turning it in knowing he was going to fail.

Should his teachers be canned because he didn't fucking try? In your world, they would be. I wish there was such an easy fix, but when you start making blanket statements like that, problems don't get fixed...they get compounded.

I have a couple friends who teach in DISD who deal with this kind of behavior on a daily basis. In my opinion these kids need to have their ass beaten(not a paddling but a real ass kicking) if they dont straiten out in a month then they should be kicked out of school. I hated it when I was a student. I still hate it. Why waste all the tax dollars and resources for pieces of shit that will be a burden on our society?

Oh, and if they get kicked out of school then they can be put on a list that restricts them from future government assistance, like food stamps.