Interesting information for your perusal...

[slow99]

You know anything about this guy? He was my brother's absolute favorite, and they still keep in touch. I can't recall how he made his money, but it's my understanding that is exactly what he did. My bro gets his interns from people in his classes, as well as some from SMU.

http://web3.unt.edu/news/story.cfm?story=9829

Nope. Looks like he made $ in RE and valuation. I'd bet Al knows him.

[Ratt]

I had a history professor several years ago which was absolutely liberal as shit - it was so ridiculously it was pouring over into his lectures and the curriculum. He taught basic US foreign history through the lens of us being an empire of conquerors destroying cultures and reaping chaos. I called him out on it regularly, and busted his ass on several historical inaccuracies, but the truth was he was a previous city manager of Nacogdoches and he had a ton of interesting knowledge and he was a great professor, even with the absurd bias he presented. I wrote my thesis on the JFK assassination from the point of view of Oswald being the single shooter, and he agreed completely - wasn't expecting that.

I had an American Government teacher that was thee same way. He was from Afghanistan, and all he did was bad-mouth the American Government and tell us how they were doing everything wrong. Worst...class...ever.

[Chili]

I see. So the strikes for better pay are for the kids, then. Makes perfect sense.

To which strikes are you referring? And what in my post are you replying to? I'm very confused.

[sc281]

To which strikes are you referring? And what in my post are you replying to? I'm very confused.

Was all as a whole, and you have at least 3 examples posted already, including one by me.

And my post was talking about your post saying money isn't the point. So I replied that Teachers striking for more money must be doing it for the kids.

[mikec]

We are in Texas. Can we PLEASE keep the strike talk to something that is actually fucking relevant? Like, Texas?

We don't have those here, so shut the fuck up on them for crying out loud.

'Cause we all know that if we bitch about it enough here, Maine will change the way they conduct business...

[Chili]

Was all as a whole, and you have at least 3 examples posted already, including one by me.

And my post was talking about your post saying money isn't the point. So I replied that Teachers striking for more money must be doing it for the kids.

Maybe the fact that you quoted me is just what is confusing me, since you seem to have been just replying in a vague fashion towards nothing specifically that I said.

To clarify, I was not questioning whether or not teachers have ever went on strike. Your reference to a strike, when I had said nothing about strikes, confused me.

What I said was:

"She was arguing about your statements seeming to indicate any Jo blow off the street could adequately perform in a classroom. Many would be surprised how tough it can be. You seem to be centering around the money, which was never her point."

I didn't say "Money isn't the point" I said money wasn't her point, her meaning Leah. She said:

"CJ, I usually don't disagree with things you say, but you are very wrong. Subbing is completely different than running a classroom. It's not just having an average IQ. It's about being able to connect with the students, find what motivates them and enhance it and to be able to make, even the most boring of subjects, interesting and meaningful.

Are there crappy teachers who are just in it for the paycheck and the breaks? Absofuckinglutely. Is the system flawed in the way it evaluates and keeps teachers? Absofuckinglutely. Is the corporate world sometimes just as screwed up? Sure. You can't make a broad statement like that. Not everyone can teach and it IS a specialized skill. I find it funny (and insulting) when people say things like that. I've worked very hard and had a lot of training to do what I do. I do take it personally as it is not just a job, it's my life."

His response to that seemed to be centered around the pay issue, where she was only arguing the point that teaching is not as easy for anyone to do as he was implying.

[mikec]

Chili. That nigga can argue a point!

[Chili]

Well then why did she highlight the only portion of the article which follows hours worked and non-compensation? It seems pretty clear the point of that highlighted section is to follow how teachers are not paid for a large portion of their work.

The part she highlighted said nothing about pay. It only addressed the amount of work involved in teaching. Yes, it did mention an average of 10 hours a week of "unpaid" work time, but that appeared to me as only an afterthought... Another item on the itemized detail of averages of hours worked. Were she trying to imply teachers are underpaid why wouldn't she have highlighted the next couple sentences?

"The compensation in the U.S. ranks 22nd (elementary) and 24th (secondary) in compensation among 28 OECD nations. This is between 61 and 65% of what average U.S. employees make in other jobs with similar education and experience."

[slow99]

We are in Texas. Can we PLEASE keep the strike talk to something that is actually fucking relevant? Like, Texas?

We don't have those here, so shut the fuck up on them for crying out loud.

'Cause we all know that if we bitch about it enough here, Maine will change the way they conduct business...

Damn straight...the last thing I expect to see here is a pointless fucking argument!

[Slowhand]

Oh, I will also say, "No Child Left Behind" and standardized testing has really crippled the teachers that are there for the right reasons. It's a complete and total failure, and should go by the wayside. That's not the fault of the teachers. Blame your politicians.

Unfortunately, while you're right about what No Child Left Behind does, the relationship between it and standardized testing isn't really causal. Before the law was enacted you could count on two hands the number of states that didn't already have standardized testing; some 30-odd of those states gave budget rewards and penalties for schools that performed well/not well. State education systems had already begun the surge in standardized testing; anyone my age was taking standardized tests from day one, at least 6 years before No Child Left Behind.

My problem with teacher complaints is that they do a lot of complaining, but don't take a lot of action. State education officials and Union leaders are made up largely of former educators (correct me if I'm wrong on that, I can't find any data but that's how teachers have pitched it to me); if every teacher seems to have the answers to our education problems, why don't they do anything when they get into administration?

Which leads into another issue in that many teachers are perfectly content to complain about their local administrations and state agencies, yet do little aside from participate in unions to do anything about the situation. I realize that you may love teaching and can't possibly tear yourself away from the classroom, but at some point you have to bite the bullet if you want to make a difference for more than your immediate classroom.

Now does any of this make teachers different from anyone else on the street? God no. But teachers make themselves a target because they constantly request, consciously or not, to be placed on a pedestal for their profession. That's not going to be a popular opinion, and it's just my observation, but I've seen it from a lot of educators. The education system is fucked, don't get me wrong, but I think teachers also struggle to evaluate themselves objectively.

[Leah]

Just to clarify the strike and union comments:

It is against the law for teachers to strike in Texas. In fact, we can lose our license for participating in any form of strike or walk out. DISD attempted to do this under the guise of people just calling in sick. However, teachers know the potential consequences of this so most will not do it. On the day this was supposed to happen, their average percentage of teachers that were out on that day (a Friday) were under the average for any other given Friday.

There are unions for teachers. You must pay dues every year to be a member and there are 3 different ones. A teacher may choose which one they join or not join at all-it is completely voluntary and you cannot be discriminated against for your choice. Joining the union provides benefits such as legal advice, a group that will go to legislature to fight for issues, etc.

[CJ]

The part she highlighted said nothing about pay. It only addressed the amount of work involved in teaching. Yes, it did mention an average of 10 hours a week of "unpaid" work time, but that appeared to me as only an afterthought... Another item on the itemized detail of averages of hours worked. Were she trying to imply teachers are underpaid why wouldn't she have highlighted the next couple sentences?

"The compensation in the U.S. ranks 22nd (elementary) and 24th (secondary) in compensation among 28 OECD nations. This is between 61 and 65% of what average U.S. employees make in other jobs with similar education and experience."

Then why even quote it exactly? What is the point about making a thread to show how many hours you work exactly? The quote revolves around how many hours are worked, and the underlying point there is the amount of hours worked and how many are unpaid. Anyone reading that quote would probably come to the same conclusion, if that isn't the point than what is? If she's not implying they are unpaid than what is she implying? They are overworked? It just doesn't make sense. The post doesn't make me think that she's explaining how great her job is, I don't think anyone would take it any other way than it's either a) a complaint, or b) about pay.

As far as strikes, I mentioned it once and I was speaking in a relative term about other states, primarily Wisconsin. But the whole "you can't strike" law is almost universal for all school districts - even where they strike. But they don't "strike" they just don't show up on a certain day. Texas teachers tried this a week ago, for example. Wisconsin and Illinois teachers went to strike rallys and ran pickets - but they didn't "strike" they just called in sick. So, Mike - we're on topic here.

As for my posts, I think everyone needs to settle down a little bit. I took this thread as an opportunity to discuss a relevant topic in regards to teachers pay. My very first replace was "IF your intention was to bitch about pay" It isn't a personal attack on Leah. I'm commenting on teachers in general, and especially focused on the ones that DO bitch about pay, and DO call in sick and strike because of pay. I think it's a real good discussion about something very important right now.

[Sean88gt]

Seems like schools need more white kids.

[Leah]

Then why even quote it exactly? What is the point about making a thread to show how many hours you work exactly? The quote revolves around how many hours are worked, and the underlying point there is the amount of hours worked and how many are unpaid. Anyone reading that quote would probably come to the same conclusion, if that isn't the point than what is? If she's not implying they are unpaid than what is she implying? They are overworked? It just doesn't make sense. The post doesn't make me think that she's explaining how great her job is, I don't think anyone would take it any other way than it's either a) a complaint, or b) about pay.

As far as strikes, I mentioned it once and I was speaking in a relative term about other states, primarily Wisconsin. But the whole "you can't strike" law is almost universal for all school districts - even where they strike. But they don't "strike" they just don't show up on a certain day. Texas teachers tried this a week ago, for example. Wisconsin and Illinois teachers went to strike rallys and ran pickets - but they didn't "strike" they just called in sick. So, Mike - we're on topic here.

As for my posts, I think everyone needs to settle down a little bit. I took this thread as an opportunity to discuss a relevant topic in regards to teachers pay. My very first replace was "IF your intention was to bitch about pay" It isn't a personal attack on Leah. I'm commenting on teachers in general, and especially focused on the ones that DO bitch about pay, and DO call in sick and strike because of pay. I think it's a real good discussion about something very important right now.

I've already answered the questions you asked.

[MattB]

She mad