Police get locksmiths to enter homes

[Trip McNeely]

They'll love my booby traps.

[John -- '02 HAWK]

They'll love my booby traps.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katko_v._Briney

Now imagine the results if its a police officer doing welfare checks.

[Trip McNeely]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katko_v._Briney

Now imagine the results if its a police officer doing welfare checks.

Not my booby traps.

http://youtu.be/NEkpIdz7BLM

[svauto-erotic855]

No building is ever secure.

That is absolutely correct. Heightened security just forces the intruder to spend more time gaining entrance. You can us that time to your advantage if you have to fight an intruder or that time can limit the time that an intruder has to safely steal your stuff before the local PD can respond to your alarm.

[Osiris]

This isn't a search or seizure. Sounds like officers are making entry under exigent circumstances - which is to get the gas shut off before something bad happens. They aren't looking for drugs in this situation. Does the article say anything about arrests made? Nope. Just officers and gas company killing the gas. Not sure why the can't cut it at the meter.

[Forever_frost]

Osiris, so these police officers, entering a home without the consent of the homeowners and using a locksmith to do so, if they see something illegal they will not come back with a warrant based on the previous search? Really?

1. They have to do a search of the house as if these shut offs are inside, they have to be located
2. That means police trapseing through the house without a warrant
3. If this is such an issue, why weren't the gas company people present? Police officers are trained to turn off gas?
4. What if an officer opened a door (using the locksmith) and the homeowner's dog gets the cop? Charges?

You really see nothing wrong with this?

[Osiris]

I think it's a bad idea as a whole. Im just saying, that under "exigent circumstances" a warrant doesn't apply. Now that I re-read the article it says the gas was shut off because of a distribution problem. The article doesnt make it sound like an emergency. Based on that what I said above doesn't apply, and the officers don't have enough reason to get in to the house. The gas company cannot authorize entry. You have to understand the individual patrol officers dont make that decision - the brass make them.
I'd like to follow up on this story later to see what happens.

[Forever_frost]

Thank you.
I know the brass make the call but I would sue the brass and the city for entering my home without my permission. Homes have a gas cutoff outside for a reason

[Osiris]

Is it possible the homes there don't have exterior shut off valves? I know nothing about that stuff.

[svauto-erotic855]

This isn't a search or seizure. Sounds like officers are making entry under exigent circumstances - which is to get the gas shut off before something bad happens. They aren't looking for drugs in this situation. Does the article say anything about arrests made? Nope. Just officers and gas company killing the gas. Not sure why the can't cut it at the meter.

Thanks to the Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996 any evidence obtained without a search warrant is still perfectly legal to use against you in court. A search warrant is merely a technicality that is not truly necessary. You are also assuming that an officer will not make up an excuses to enter a home illegally.

A common trick that the police use is to send an apartments maintenance man into a unit to change the HVAC air filter or fire alarm battery and use what he saw as probable cause to get a warrant.

[loc712]

They can shut it down at the meter if you don't pay your bill.

[JFurst]

Sounds like carrollton pd

[Osiris]

Thanks to the Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996 any evidence obtained without a search warrant is still perfectly legal to use against you in court. A search warrant is merely a technicality that is not truly necessary. You are also assuming that an officer will not make up an excuses to enter a home illegally.

A common trick that the police use is to send an apartments maintenance man into a unit to change the HVAC air filter or fire alarm battery and use what he saw as probable cause to get a warrant.

You do realize I am a police officer, right? Evidence found during a warrantless search where a warrant is needed is not admissible in court. I had never heard of a single case during any of my arrest, search, and seizure classes where what you said was true.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruit_of_the_poisonous_tree

Fruit of the poisonous tree is a legal metaphor in the United States used to describe evidence that is obtained illegally.[1] The logic of the terminology is that if the source of the evidence (the "tree") is tainted, then anything gained from it (the "fruit") is as well.

Such evidence is not generally admissible in court.[2] For example, if a police officer conducted an unconstitutional (Fourth Amendment) search of a home and obtained a key to a train station locker, and evidence of a crime came from the locker, that evidence would most likely be excluded under the fruit of the poisonous tree doctrine. The discovery of a witness is not evidence in itself because the witness is attenuated by separate interviews, in-court testimony and his or her own statements.

The doctrine is an extension of the exclusionary rule, which, subject to some exceptions, prevents evidence obtained in violation of the Fourth Amendment from being admitted in a criminal trial. Like the exclusionary rule, the fruit of the poisonous tree doctrine is intended to deter police from using illegal means to obtain evidence.

The doctrine is subject to four main exceptions. The tainted evidence is admissible if:

it was discovered in part as a result of an independent, untainted source;
it would inevitably have been discovered despite the tainted source; or
the chain of causation between the illegal action and the tainted evidence is too attenuated; or
the search warrant not based on probable cause was executed by government agents in good faith (called the good faith exception).
The fruit of the poisonous tree doctrine stems from the 1920 case of Silverthorne Lumber Co. v. United States.[3]

[John -- '02 HAWK]

Is it possible the homes there don't have exterior shut off valves? I know nothing about that stuff.

while Im no expert it could be a case in which the didnt want any backflow or pressure issues and were closing both the main and the house. Its also possible that these are much older brownstones that dont comply to modern codes

[Stephen]

Osiris, so these police officers, entering a home without the consent of the homeowners and using a locksmith to do so, if they see something illegal they will not come back with a warrant based on the previous search? Really?


You really see nothing wrong with this?

I doubt a cop would shoot for a warrant unless there was

A. a room full of cash
B. some sort of drug lab going on
C. children locked in a closet
D. some type of extreme fucked up shit etc....

I would be willing to bet if they saw the casual "bong" or a couple assault rifles on the kitchen table they would overlook it as they are intruding only to shut the gas off and potentially save the homeonwers life..