Talk about "parents" messing with a kid's mind

[racrguy]

It says in your link he died at age 38. And lookie there, heterosexual parents. And to think, some people in this thread wanted to ban homosexual adoption because unfortunate things like what was described in both stories only happen to homosexual parents. Obviously the story about David is a fabrication, there's no way a hetero couple could allow something like this to take place.

[jnobles06]

i don't understand how this is legal after this happened in 2004

David Reimer- boy raised as a girl because his penis was destroyed during a circumcision accident. at age 15 went back to living as a male. at age 29 he committed suicide.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer

[racrguy]

Go cry to your daddies. Everyone has a stance on everything and most of us just don't agree with cocksuckers like you. No big deal, really.

Ohhh, poor Dennis. He can't come up with any good reason to justify his hatred so he has to pull these shenanigans. *pats you on the head* It'll be ok, my feeble minded adversary.

Really? Look through the registered sex offenders. it is 3-1 old men and young boys...

I was talking about all abuse. A vast majority of abuse is performed by heterosexual people. That's the point I was making.

While I can understand your desire to believe that it's not a result of being abused much of the time, homosexuality is unnatural.

Do I care if some dude wants to smoke pole? Not at all. But don't introduce that behavior to children as "normal". Homosexuals came from abused childhoods MOST of the times. That's backed up with plenty of evidence, whether or not you choose to believe it. It is not normal, and the more we as a populace treat it as normal, the worse it will be for society.

But homosexuality is normal, it's seen throughout nature as a natural occurrence. Why should humans somehow be immune to this natural phenomenon? It's been around since the ancient greeks (as far back as I cared to look) so it's not like it's a new thing. Also, since you say that homosexuals came from abused childhoods most of the time, and it's backed up with plenty of evidence, you should be able to provide the evidence so I can look at it. After all, of all the things I dislike, I dislike being wrong the most.

http://www.albertmohler.com/2004/06/...ement-has-won/

You should really not look at the bible for any sort of moral compass. Sure there are good pieces of moral advice, but there are countless more acts of immorality advocated within its bindings. Eat shellfish, go to hell. Work on sunday, go to hell. Is your kid being unruly, stone him. Rape victim, death, or marriage to her attacker. The list goes on and on.

The big thing is that many "christians" quote the passage about homosexuality as justification for the denial of rights for homosexual people, then decide to ignore the parts that they don't agree with in that very same book. It's an all or nothing deal.

While he may likely not admit it, I think Denny justifies his dislike of homosexual behavior with the bible, but I could be wrong.

Like bcoop said earlier, you can't discriminate against an entire group of people because of the actions of a few.

[Tx Redneck]

For the love of all, READ this article! It's how they forced it to be mainstream!

http://www.albertmohler.com/2004/06/03/after-the-ball-why-the-homosexual-movement-has-won/

Thursday, June 3, 2004

The spectacular success of the homosexual movement stands as one of the most fascinating phenomena of our time. In less than two decades, homosexuality has moved from “the love that dares not speak its name,” to the center of America’s public life. The homosexual agenda has advanced even more quickly than its most ardent proponents had expected, and social change of this magnitude demands some explanation.

A partial explanation of the homosexual movement’s success can be traced to the 1989 publication of After the Ball: How America Will Conquer Its Fear and Hatred of Gays in the 90s. Published with little fanfare, this book became the authoritative public relations manual for the homosexual agenda, and its authors presented the book as a distillation of public relations advice for the homosexual community. A look back at its pages is an occasion for understanding just how successful their plan was.

Authors Marshall Kirk and Hunter Madsen combined psychiatric and public relations expertise in devising their strategy. Kirk, a researcher in neuropsychiatry, and Madsen, a public relations consultant, argued that homosexuals must change their presentation to the heterosexual community if real success was to be made.

Conceiving their book as a “gay manifesto for the 1990s,” the authors called for homosexuals to repackage themselves as mainstream citizens demanding equal treatment, rather than as a promiscuous sexual minority seeking greater opportunity and influence.

Writing just as the AIDS crisis hit its greatest momentum, the authors saw the disease as an opportunity to change the public mind. “As cynical as it may seem, AIDS gives us a chance, however brief, to establish ourselves as a victimized minority legitimately deserving of America’s special protection and care,” they wrote.

Give them credit: they really did understand the operation of the public mind. Kirk and Madsen called for homosexuals to talk incessantly about homosexuality in public. “Open, frank talk makes gayness seem less furtive, alien, and sinful; more above board,” they asserted. “Constant talk builds the impression that public opinion is at least divided on the subject, and that a sizeable bloc–the most modern, up-to-date citizens–accept or even practice homosexuality.”

Nevertheless, not all talk about homosexuality is helpful. “And when we say talk about homosexuality, we mean just that. In the early stages of the campaign, the public should not be shocked and repelled by premature exposure to homosexual behavior itself. Instead, the imagery of sex per se should be downplayed, and the issue of gay rights reduced, as far as possible, to an abstract social question.”

Portraying homosexuals as victims was essential to their strategy. Offering several principles for tactical advance in their cause, the authors called upon homosexuals to “portray gays as victims of circumstance and depression, not as aggressive challengers.” This would be necessary, they argued, because “gays must be portrayed as victims in need of protection so that straights will be inclined by reflex to adopt the role of protector.”

Such a strategy could, they asserted, lead to something like a “conversion” of the public mind on the question of homosexuality. “The purpose of victim imagery is to make straights feel very uncomfortable; that is, to jam with shame the self-righteous pride that would ordinarily accompany and reward their antigay belligerence, and to lay groundwork for the process of conversion by helping straights identify with gays and sympathize with their underdog status.”

Obviously, this would mean marginalizing some members of the homosexual community. Kirk and Madsen were bold to advise a mainstreaming of the homosexual image. “In practical terms, this means that cocky mustachioed leather-men, drag queens, and bull dykes would not appear in gay commercials and other public presentations. Conventional young people, middle-age women, and older folks of all races would be featured, not to mention the parents and straight friends of gays.” Furthermore, “It cannot go without saying, incidentally, that groups on the farthest margins of acceptability, such as NAMBLA [North American Man-Boy Love Association], must play no part at all in such a campaign. Suspected child molesters will never look like victims.”

What about the origin of sexual orientation? The success of the homosexual movement can be largely traced to the very idea of “orientation” itself. More precisely, homosexuals advanced their cause by arguing that they were born that way. Madsen and Kirk offer this as candid public relations advice. “We argue that, for all practical purposes, gays should be considered to have been born gay–even though sexual orientation, for most humans, seems to be the product of a complex interaction between innate predispositions and environmental factors during childhood and early adolescence.” Alas, “To suggest in public that homosexuality might be chosen is to open the can of worms labeled ‘moral choices and sin’ and give the religious intransigents a stick to beat us with. Straights must be taught that it is as natural for some persons to be homosexual as it is for others to be heterosexual: wickedness and seduction have nothing to do with it.”

There can be no doubt that Christianity represents the greatest obstacle to the normalization of homosexual behavior. It cannot be otherwise, because of the clear biblical teachings concerning the inherent sinfulness of homosexuality in all forms, and the normativity of heterosexual marriage. In order to counter this obstacle, Kirk and Madsen advised gays to “use talk to muddy the moral waters, that is, to undercut the rationalizations that ‘justify’ religious bigotry and to jam some of its psychic rewards.” How can this be done? “This entails publicizing support by moderate churches and raising serious theological objections to conservative biblical teachings. It also means exposing the inconsistency and hatred underlying antigay doctrines.”

Conservative churches, defined by the authors as “homohating” are portrayed as “antiquated backwaters, badly out of step with the times and with the latest findings of psychology.”

A quick review of the last 15 years demonstrates the incredible effectiveness of this public relations advice. The agenda set out by Kirk and Madsen led to nothing less than social transformation. By portraying themselves as mainstream Americans seeking nothing but liberty and self-fulfillment, homosexuals redefined the moral equation. Issues of right and wrong were isolated as outdated, repressive, and culturally embarrassing. Instead, the assertion of “rights” became the hallmark of the public relations strategy.

Other principles offered by the authors included making gays look good by identifying strategic historical figures as being hidden homosexuals, and, on the other hand, making “victimizers” look bad in the public eye. Kirk and Madsen suggested isolating conservative Christians by presenting them as “hysterical backwoods preachers, drooling with hate to a degree that looks both comical and deranged.” They offered a concrete example of how this strategy could be used on television and in print. “For example, for several seconds an unctuous beady-eyed Southern preacher is shown pounding the pulpit in rage against ‘those perverted, abominable creatures.’” While his tirade continues over the soundtrack, the picture switches to heart-rending photos of badly beaten persons, or of gays who look decent, harmless, and likeable; and then we cut back to the poisonous face of the preacher. The contrast speaks for itself. The effect is devastating.”

Public relations is now a major part of the American economy, with hundreds of millions of dollars poured into advertising strategies and image enhancement programs. Observers of the public relations world must look back with slack-jawed amazement at the phenomenal success of the approach undertaken by homosexuals over the last two decades. The advice offered by Marshall Kirk and Hunter Madsen is nothing less than a manifesto for moral revolution. A look back at this strategy indicates just how self-consciously the homosexual movement advanced its cause by following this plan.

Those who oppose the normalization of homosexuality have indeed been presented as backwoods, antiquated, and dangerous people, while those advancing the cause are presented as forces for light, progress, and acceptance. Conservative Christians have indeed been presented as proponents of hatred rather than as individuals driven by biblical conviction. The unprecedented success of this public relations strategy helps to explain why America has accepted everything from homosexual characters and plotlines in prime-time entertainment to the lack of outrage in response to same-sex marriage in Massachusetts.

At least we know what we are up against. Biblical Christians must continue to talk about right and wrong even when the larger world dismisses morality as an outdated concept. We must maintain marriage as a non-negotiable norm–a union of a man and a woman–even when the courts redefine marriage by fiat. At the same time, we must take into account the transformation of the American mind that is now so devastatingly evident to all who have eyes to see.

The real tragedy of After the Ball is that the great result of this is not a party, but the complete rejection of the very moral foundations which made this society possible. In order to address the most fundamental problems, we must understand the shape of the American mind. Looking back at After the Ball after fifteen years, it all comes into frightening focus.

[Baba Ganoush]

I'm not sure if there is a god, but this article would be on the first page of the memo on his desk entitled "The Rapture; It is Time.".

[ThreeFingerPete]

That's funny. I hear about a whole lot more about heterosexual abuse than I do homosexual. One of the MANY reasons opposite sex parents is not only immoral, but should be illegal.

While I can understand your desire to believe that it's not a result of being abused much of the time, homosexuality is unnatural.

Do I care if some dude wants to smoke pole? Not at all. But don't introduce that behavior to children as "normal". Homosexuals came from abused childhoods MOST of the times. That's backed up with plenty of evidence, whether or not you choose to believe it. It is not normal, and the more we as a populace treat it as normal, the worse it will be for society.

[Chopped54]

That's funny. I hear about a whole lot more about heterosexual abuse than I do homosexual. One of the MANY reasons opposite sex parents is not only immoral, but should be illegal.

Really? Look through the registered sex offenders. it is 3-1 old men and young boys...

[VaderTT]

If I ever have a kid, I'm going to raise it as a transexual zombie!

[bcoop]

In nature, two same sex animals would not have offspring. It's as simple as that. Homosexuality is a defect, and it should not be taught to children. Even worse that this kid is taught that you get to choose your gender at his age. He shouldn't even be aware of things like that. Adult issues like these are for adults. He should be choosing what cartoon he wants to watch, or what color his next bicycle should be.

While I get your point, and agree with some of it, I dont think an entire group of people should be discriminated against when it comes to giving a child a loving home, that in most cases, they wouldn't otherwise have. Yes, these two man hating dykes are fucked up, and have no business raising a child. But not every other gay couple is this way. You can't be so close minded as to think that. In most cases, non hetero couples raise hetero children, and they are very well adjusted, loved, and live a reasonably normal life.

[Denny]

I agree, but ultimately as an adult you have the right to fuck yourself up in a million ways. Alcoholism, drug abuse, etc. None of these problems should be inflicted on a child.

True. I'm not going to hold them back, but I'll definately not agree with it.

[ThreeFingerPete]

Even then, gender selection should not be an option. Freakin' freaks.

I agree, but ultimately as an adult you have the right to fuck yourself up in a million ways. Alcoholism, drug abuse, homosexuality, etc. None of these problems should be inflicted on a child.

[Denny]

In nature, two same sex animals would not have offspring. It's as simple as that. Homosexuality is a defect, and it should not be taught to children. Even worse that this kid is taught that you get to choose your gender at his age. He shouldn't even be aware of things like that. Adult issues like these are for adults. He should be choosing what cartoon he wants to watch, or what color his next bicycle should be.

Even then, gender selection should not be an option. Freakin' freaks.

[Big A]

I find it interesting that giving a CHILD hormone blockers for no specific medical reason is legal, yet it is illegal for full grown adult alter their own hormone makeup. An adult male must be of a certain age, and tested for low test, before they can legally obtain substances to correct it.

I'll leave the emotional and mental influences off the table, and say that these "parents" should be jailed on the hormone therapy alone, and the child removed from the home.

As for the mental/emotional part, you want to be a cop or a career soldier because your family has done it for generations, you don't go gay because your two mommies are too insecure, and need to convert you into one of them, to help vindicate their own fucked up lifestyle.

[jasonw_2005]

In nature, two same sex animals would not have offspring. It's as simple as that. Homosexuality is a defect, and it should not be taught to children. Even worse that this kid is taught that you get to choose your gender at his age. He shouldn't even be aware of things like that. Adult issues like these are for adults. He should be choosing what cartoon he wants to watch, or what color his next bicycle should be.

This

[ThreeFingerPete]

I agree with everything said here except for the teetering on abuse part. Like someone else said, kids can't even pick what flavor of poptart they want, let alone a decision like the one made here.

To all you mouth breathers trying to lump all homosexuals into on big group and are advocating murder, or the removal of someone's rights without just cause. I'd like to give a nice whole hearted fuck you to each and every one of you. You don't punish a whole group of people because of a few bad apples. What some of you are calling for is akin to denying all black people the ability to own a firearm because a few dumbasses dcided it would be a good idea to shoot someone. Crawl out of your own little worlds and realize that not everyone is like you, and that just because they aren't doesn't give you the right to deny them anything.

In nature, two same sex animals would not have offspring. It's as simple as that. Homosexuality is a defect, and it should not be taught to children. Even worse that this kid is taught that you get to choose your gender at his age. He shouldn't even be aware of things like that. Adult issues like these are for adults. He should be choosing what cartoon he wants to watch, or what color his next bicycle should be.