Fullerton PD beat homeless man to death.

[SS Junk]

And I hope they are punished. They made the choice to do what they did, and those that were there had the choice to stop them.

Other officers or witnesses?

[WildBill]

Other officers or witnesses?

Other officers.

[03trubluGT]

Other officers or witnesses?

Other officers.

Exactly.

I've had to step in a couple of times, but nothing like this. I'll even give my example of the closest I've ever come to beating someone to a pulp.

September 9, 2001 a car chase came from the northside into downtown. The officer was chasing a 1 ton van that was stolen. They were south on Henderson and hauling ass. The officer was alone, so I joined in. We went down by the hospitals and then west on Rosedale. This was a Sunday if I remember right. The traffic was light, but the driver was doing about 70 down W. Rosedale.

We came to the light at 8th Avenue and he ran the red light. He t-boned a guy going north in a Honda Accord. He hit the Accord so hard the van flipped up on its nose and the rear bumper almost hit the signal light. The van came to a rest sliding west on its driver's side. The Accord just took the impact and slid to the northwest. I could tell as I slowed to a stop the Honda driver was dead by just looking at him. I focused on the van and the driver started climbing out of a window. As I grabbed his bloody ass (from all the glass) I handcuffed him and drug him over to the Accord. I made him look at what he did and it was all I could do to contain my rage.

That was one of the hardest tests of self control I have ever had.

[talisman]

Exactly.

I've had to step in a couple of times, but nothing like this. I'll even give my example of the closest I've ever come to beating someone to a pulp.

September 9, 2001 a car chase came from the northside into downtown. The officer was chasing a 1 ton van that was stolen. They were south on Henderson and hauling ass. The officer was alone, so I joined in. We went down by the hospitals and then west on Rosedale. This was a Sunday if I remember right. The traffic was light, but the driver was doing about 70 down W. Rosedale.

We came to the light at 8th Avenue and he ran the red light. He t-boned a guy going north in a Honda Accord. He hit the Accord so hard the van flipped up on its nose and the rear bumper almost hit the signal light. The van came to a rest sliding west on its driver's side. The Accord just took the impact and slid to the northwest. I could tell as I slowed to a stop the Honda driver was dead by just looking at him. I focused on the van and the driver started climbing out of a window. As I grabbed his bloody ass (from all the glass) I handcuffed him and drug him over to the Accord. I made him look at what he did and it was all I could do to contain my rage.

That was one of the hardest tests of self control I have ever had.

I could never do your job, man.

[SS Junk]

Exactly.

Out of curiosity, I'm sure you used a few explicative here and there during this situation(?), but does your department have a policy about cursing?

[03trubluGT]

Out of curiosity, I'm sure you used a few explicative here and there during this situation(?), but does your department have a policy about cursing?

Of course, it is against policy to use degrading, demeaning, abusive, or foul language while in uniform and in an official capacity, but when you are in the heat of the moment, there are some things that mitigate it.

Also, you have to look at the circumstances. If I go to Stop 6/Poly and use the Queen's English, there is no way I can use officer presence/verbal commands to control people. They see that as weakness and will try to walk all over you, or worse.

There are some areas you have to say "get on the ground, MF-er" and one of those isn't downtown or the TCU area.

[SS Junk]

The partner of a friend of mine who was attacked by a dog (I think I showed you the pics) was fined multiple times by his department for cursing while commanding an armed perp to drop his weapon. Guess they're hurting for cash.

[03trubluGT]

The partner of a friend of mine who was attacked by a dog (I think I showed you the pics) was fined multiple times by his department for cursing while commanding an armed perp to drop his weapon. Guess they're hurting for cash.

To be politically correct, you can't just give people cart blanche permission to be a potty mouth.

It can, in certain circumstances, be mitigated.


Like in 2005 I went to arrest a guy and he sic'd his Rott/Pitt on me. The dog bit my right arm, and then left hamstring while I was hands on with bad guy. He had warrants for drugs and evading. After I let the guy go to fight the dog, the dog ran off and confronted me again while I was searching the house for the bad guy. I told the guys mom that "if that fucking dog bites me again, I'll kill it". She complained to IAD, but it was dismissed because of the heat of the moment thing. I don't normally talk that way in a professional setting, but that time I did. I was standing there bleeding from my right arm and left leg at the time. I can attest to the fact that when you are in the heat of the moment and you have an adrenaline dump it is hard to control everything you do.

[Broncojohnny]

Finally someone with some balls charged one of these pricks with murder...

http://www.cnn.com/2011/09/21/justice/california-homeless-death/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Santa Ana, California (CNN) -- A Fullerton police officer pleaded not guilty Wednesday to charges of involuntary manslaughter and felony use of excessive force in the beating death of a mentally ill homeless man who died after a police arrest.

Cpl. Jay Patrick Cicinelli was released Wednesday on $25,000 bail, according to his attorney and a spokeswoman for the prosecutor.

Meanwhile, the arraignment of the officer facing more serious charges, Manuel Anthony Ramos, was continued to September 26 at the request of his attorneys. Ramos was being held Wednesday after Orange County Superior Court Judge Erick L. Larsh set his bail at $1 million.

Ramos, who is 37 and a 10-year veteran of the Fullerton police, is charged with second degree murder and involuntary manslaughter in the July beating death of Kelly Thomas, who was unarmed.

Thomas' father, Ron, urged the judge not to reduce Ramos' bail from $1 million because of "the horrible manner in which my son was murdered."

The September 26 court hearing, however, will also review Ramos' bail.

The judge ordered both officers to surrender their guns within 24 hours. He also set a pretrial hearing for Cicinelli on November 4.

The charges were announced Wednesday by the Orange County prosecutor.

The actions of Ramos "were reckless and created a high risk of death and great bodily injury," District Attorney Tony Rackauckas told reporters.

Ramos faces a maximum sentence of 15 years to life if convicted, authorities said. Cicinelli, who is 39 years old and a 12-year Fullerton police veteran, faces a maximum of four years in prison if convicted.

Kelly Thomas, a 37-year-old homeless man with schizophrenia, was beaten by police during an altercation and died five days later. The FBI is also investigating civil rights violations in the case.

Six Fullerton officers, including Ramos and Cicinelli, were put on paid leave after Thomas' death. The case drew widespread attention to the police department of Fullerton, located about 25 miles southeast of downtown Los Angeles.

Since then, two other brutality allegations have been made by men who were allegedly injured by Fullerton police last year, and Officer Kenton Hampton has been placed on paid leave in connection with one of those two complaints, a department spokesman said. Hampton, 41, is a five-year veteran of the Fullerton police, prosecutors said.

The other four officers involved in the Thomas incident -- Hampton, Officer Joseph Wolfe, Sgt. Kevin Craig and Cpl. James Blatney -- were not charged because "the evidence does not show knowing participation in an unlawful act on the part of these officers," the prosecutor said in a statement.

Thomas suffered brain injuries, facial fractures, rib fractures, and extensive bruising and abrasions, the prosecutor's office said.

The Orange County coroner listed the manner of death as a homicide and the cause of death to be "anoxic encephalopathy with acute bronchopneumonia," asphyxia caused by "mechanical chest compression with blunt cranial-facial injuries during physical altercation with law enforcement," prosecutors said.

The toxicology report showed no illegal drugs or alcohol in Thomas' system, prosecutors said.

"The cause of death in this case is mechanical compression of the thorax, making it impossible for Kelly Thomas to breathe normal. In other words, with the chest being compressed, Kelly Thomas was unable to inhale," Rackauckas told reporters. "Over time his brain was deprived of oxygen."

Ramos, who is accused of setting into motion the events that led to Thomas' death, made initial contact with Thomas on July 5 after police received a call about a homeless man looking in car windows and pulling on handles of parked cars, Rackauckas said.

Cicinelli, who arrived at the scene later, is accused of using excessive force when he allegedly assaulted and beat Thomas, "acting recklessly, under the color of authority without lawful necessity," the prosecutor's office said.

Cicinelli is accused of using the front end of his Taser to hit Thomas on the head and face eight times while Thomas was pinned to the ground by other officers and was making no audible sounds, indicating that Thomas was "down and seriously injured," the prosecutor's office said.

Ramos made "a deliberate showing of putting on Latex gloves" in his detention of Thomas, Rackauckas said.

Ramos is accused of making two fists with his gloves still on in front of Thomas, the prosecutor said.

"He lifted his fists to Kelly Thomas and he said, 'You see my fist? Now they're getting to ready to F you up,'" Rackauckas told reporters, using "F" instead of the full profanity.

Rackauckas said Ramos' conduct was unacceptable and "not protecting and serving" the public.

"Ramos had to know that he was creating a situation where Kelly Thomas feared for his life and was struggling to get away from an armed officer who was going to 'F' him up," Rackauckas said.

The district attorney said he viewed a bus depot surveillance video of the beating. The video shows 16 minutes passed from the initial contact by police to the start of the beating and alleged unlawful police conduct, the prosecutor said.

"It's heartrending. It's hard to watch and listen to. It's a person saying he's sorry, calling for his dad and asking for help. He seems to know that it's over just before it is," Rackauckas said of the video.

"Officer Ramos had prior contact with Kelly Thomas and he knew Kelly Thomas and who he was. He was a homeless drifter who frequented that area," Rackauckas said.

In all, prosecutors also reviewed video from two cell phones and bus camera videos, statements by 151 witnesses, police reports written by all six officers, the coroner's report, medical reports, and the batons and Tasers of the officers, Rackauckas said.

Asked about the charged officers' motive, the prosecutor responded: "That's a pretty good question. It just appears from watching the video that the officer became increasingly angered with Kelly Thomas as this goes on."

"Ramos is accused of instructing Thomas to put his legs out straight and place his hands on his knees, but Thomas had difficulty following Ramos' instructions," Rackauckas said in his statement. "Thomas appeared to have cognitive issues."

The physical altercation began at 8:52 p.m. and lasted nine minutes and 40 seconds until Thomas was handcuffed and no longer moving, the prosecutor said.

"Throughout the physical altercation, Thomas struggled, yelled and pleaded, 'I can't breathe,' 'I'm sorry, dude,' 'Please,' 'OK, OK,' 'Dad, dad,' and 'Dad, help me.'

Thomas was severely bleeding but the officers did not reduce their level of force. Throughout the struggle, Thomas' actions were defensive in nature and motivated by pain and fear," the prosecutor added in a written summary of the incident.

Cicinelli is accused of kneeing Thomas twice in the head and using his Taser four times on him, including three times as a "drive stun," or direct application on the skin, for about five seconds each, the prosecutor said. The fourth time was a dart deployment, in which two darts connected to wires are ejected and stick to the skin or clothing, for about 12 seconds.

"Thomas screamed and yelled in pain while being Tased," the prosecutor's summary said.

Cicinelli is accused of using the stun device "unreasonably and unnecessarily" because Thomas was pinned to the ground by several officers and was vulnerable with his head and face exposed, the prosecutors said.

"The biggest shame about this case is the fact that it could have been avoided," Rackauckas said in his statement. "This never had to happen, and it never should have happened."

After announcing the charges during a news conference, Rackauckas held a private meeting with Ron Thomas and his attorney.

After that meeting, Ron Thomas told reporters that he was "very, very happy" with the outcome of the prosecutors' investigation.

"Tony Rackauckas made it very clear that this murder charge will not be reduced," Thomas told reporters. "We came in here expecting the worse and got the best. He's extremely serious about prosecuting to the fullest extent."

[jewozzy]

Good

[slow99]

Good

Yep.

[GE]

To be politically correct, you can't just give people cart blanche permission to be a potty mouth.

Shiiiiit. Mike Carroll still works there, I know better!

[mikec]

Bravo!

[03trubluGT]

I had a nice long reply typed up, but the Cliff's Notes is that I am disgusted that an officer would do anything like this.

The bad thing is that this will pass, and it will someday happen again.

[stangstew]

What i can't stand is the people on here that fucking act like the police PISS GOLD. No matter what they do, you fucks always act like they are above the law they are supossed to up hold. I just dont see how you can even question this one. A MAN WAS FUCKING BEAT TO DEATH!!! Your telling me that with all those cops they couldn't get him in handcuffs and a car. BULLSHIT!!!!! IF it was you fucking kid you would be saying brutality. FUCK THESE BULLSHIT ASS COPS THAT USE THERE BADGE FOR POWER AND PERSONAL GAIN! fucking pussies are just making up the all the years they where picked on in highschool. FUCK those cops and fuck all of you that support these sorry motherfuckers