Ford Raptor Frames Bending

[Cooter]

I thought Dodges were the ones with weak frames

[papapepper]

I thought Dodges were the ones with weak frames

Does Dodge or Chevrolet even produce anything close to the Raptor? Just wondering.

[Broncojohnny]

Although I would never buy one, I love the way the Raptors look. Before I got through the first page of that thread I knew Ford would scream the word "ABUSE" from the rooftops.

[8mpg]

I thought Dodges were the ones with weak frames

el oh el....

[Cooter]

Does Dodge or Chevrolet even produce anything close to the Raptor? Just wondering.

an ugly, overpriced piece of shit?

well.. Chevrolet has the Avalanche... and Dodge had the SRT10 and Daytona. I'm not sure what they're currently offering for that market

[bcoop]

Does Dodge or Chevrolet even produce anything close to the Raptor? Just wondering.

No. Ford has the market cornered on this. Hope those guys get it resolved with ease.

[Lason]

So did Ford warranty it or are they still trying to get it resolved?

Just got off the phone with my buddy and he is pretty pissed about it. He said he going to check his when he gets home to see if his is jacked up.

This reminds me of the Focus that had the nitrous from roush or saleen but filling it voided the warranty. Or the GTR that shattered the POS $20k trannys the second you turned off launch control and voided the warranty in the process.

[Nash B.]

LOL @ all the GMC ads below the pictures.

[Sean88gt]

So did Ford warranty it or are they still trying to get it resolved?

Just got off the phone with my buddy and he is pretty pissed about it. He said he going to check his when he gets home to see if his is jacked up.

This reminds me of the Focus that had the nitrous from roush or saleen but filling it voided the warranty. Or the GTR that shattered the POS $20k trannys the second you turned off launch control and voided the warranty in the process.

They are charging the owners to fix it.

I'm in the minority, but I really dig the trucks. If I was going to dump the cash on a new truck the Raptor would get multiple looks.

[mustang_revival]

This company is selling re-enforcement kits.

http://www.superduty-hq.com/sdhqfordraptorrearframereinforcementkit.aspx

I would do something even if I had a new F150

[Juiced4v]

an ugly, overpriced piece of shit?

well.. Chevrolet has the Avalanche... and Dodge had the SRT10 and Daytona. I'm not sure what they're currently offering for that market

I think the Avalanche is booboo just like my EXT...but the SRT10 I think is the 2nd baddest truck made out there...behing the Lightning..

[FATHERFORD]

There is nothing wrong with the frames itself... Those guys were hitting a 18" ridge at 60+mph. Physics will win out time and time again.

from another forum....

Guys,
I own a Raptor, and I am a mechanical engineer who used to design shock isolation systems for shipborne electronics. I do not know the deisgn specifics for the raptor suspension (spring rates, damping rates, exact distributed weights etc.) but I am guessing that hitting an 18" ridge at high speed is one of the most punishing things that can be done to your suspension for the following reasons:

1. Your suspension at rest can only absorb about 6" of deflection before the rear axle hits the steel frame (bump stop totally flattened). the rest of your suspension is "droop", meaning that when you jump the tires move down at least 6" relative to your truck.
2. Moving at high speed means that the suspension does not have time to accelerate your truck up. Basically the tires MUST move up RIGHT NOW, but the bed of your truck does not (unlike say, a gradual ramp).
3. A short ridge (like a big speed bump) moves the tires upwards very quickly; coupled with high speed, and already partially compressed suspension means HUGE forces between the axle and frame when the two crash together.

I suspect that hitting a ridge at high speed is MUCH worse than jumping your trucks (where the suspension can extend to absorb the landing better). It is also worse than short gullies where again the suspension can extend and then absorb the impact.

Overheated shocks and loads in the bed will only make the problem worse. I'm not making a statement about whether this is abuse or not. But this kind of treatment will cause metal to bend. I know this is the last thing you want to hear, but you may want to slow down for ridges in future.

Here are the variables to consider:
- Higher tire pressure [worse] (until you cut the tire with your rim) as the tires "give" less
- Higher speed [worse] (increases speed at which the tire moves upward, and reduces time for suspension to move truck up and regain suspension clearance)
- Taller bump [worse] (anything greator than 6" of hard pack or so could be a problem at very high speeds)
- Harder pack [worse] (loose sand or snow- no problem) hard packed clay or concrete = bad) loose ground will be "cut" by your tires and the suspension will not move much.
- Loaded truck [worse] mass in your bed will directly impact the "hit", also it reduces the amount of suspension travel left by compressing the springs more.
- "Abrupt" bump worse - reduces time for suspension to recover

Because of the masses involved, and the accelerations, I doubt any quick fixes will work. I'm betting the loads are VERY HIGH. I'll run some numbers when I get a bit more time.

After giving this some thought, I doubt ANY current production truck would survive that reatment without damage (60MPH, 18" high, "kicker" ridge as hinted at in earlier posts). I also doubt that it is a defect in design or manufacture.

Ok, I ran some numbers, and they are eye opening.

Assumptions:
The "kicker" or "dirt speed bump" is one Raptor tire diameter accross, and is shaped like two ramps joined together (like a flattened triangle).

Case #1:
Kicker height is 18" (flattened to 12" by your tires)
Truck speed is 60MPH (88 fps)
The bottom of the tire has to move up 12" in .0166 seconds. this is an average speed of 60.24 ft/s
To generate this suspension speed, the truck would have to free fall 56 FEET!!!!! That's an impressive number, but what does it mean?

It means that the truck is recieving an impact equavalent to the first 12" of a 56 FOOT DROP WITH THE SUSPENSION ALREADY HALF COMPRESSED! My best guess is that the suspension acounts for about 6" of that, the tires for maybe another 3-4", the axle for some fraction of an inch, the truck vertical motion for another small fraction of an inch (no time to respond), and the rest? It all goes into deforming the frame by 1"-2".

This also tells me that even if the frame were boxed in that area, or if it was 3 times thicker, it would still bend. Even if the frame was reinfored enough to hold, the next likely point of failure is the axle, which would bend, stranding you.

Case #2:
Kicker Height is 12" (flattened to 9" by the tires)
Truck speed is 45 MPH (66ft/s)
The bottom of the tire has to move up 9" in .0221 seconds, an average speed of 33.94 ft/s vertical.

To generate this suspension speed, the truck would have to free fall about 18 feet! This is a MUCH less severe impact! More importantly, the impact is only 9" long (insert obvious joke here). Additionally the truck may be able to absorb it without requiring metal to deform.

The suspension can absorb 6", the tires their 3", the axle a tiny bit, the truck can move upwards a bit more, and all you probably have is tortured bump stops.

So those of you who have jumped their Raptors (and the most vertical air I've seen is maybe 8-9 feet) and said they don't have bent frames? This is because hitting an 18" kicker at 60MPH is about 7 TIMES as severe. PLUS your suspension is fully extended when you jump, cushioning the fall better, unlike the speed bump example.

Conclusion? If you hit something like a speed bump or "kicker" taller than your available suspension travel, plus tire "squash", at HIGH speed, you will bend metal.

The ONLY way to adress this issue is increase suspension travel to be greator than the intended acceptable "bump". Or god forbid (*sniff), slow down. Reinforcing the frame will either fail to work (bend anyway), or cause something else to fail (like the axle).

Nobody designs trucks to withstand those forces (like the first foot of a 56 foot drop with already compressed suspension), that would be incredibly impractical (and they'd sell one a year at $300k). I do not believe there is a design flaw, I believe that somebody found a situation that exceeds its strength.

I would love to join in the next Raptor Run, jumps are fine, short gullies are fine, just look out for the big kickers when you are burnin' up the dirt!

Although that is the same "Velocity" as you say... there would be MUCH more actual "load" on the frame at that same point if it were dropped, as oppose to this scenario which is instant shock, followed by no additional force by the weight of the truck, etc... It's definitely not comparably to "Actually" dropping a truck 56 feet, as we all know the outcome of that! haha

I can forsee more than just a slightly tweaked frame with an additional 6000lbs of force in play!

The 6,000 pounds (maybe less than half on the rear axle) is in play for both cases. In one case (the drop) the suspension is trying to act on the truck's mass by decelerating it from ~60 ft/s downward to zero (at rest).

In the other case (the kicker), the suspension is trying to accelerate the truck frame from 0 to 60 ft/s upward.

The masses are equivalent, the accelerations are equivalent, therfore the forces are equal. This is valid for the entire height of the bump.

[papapepper]

So did Ford warranty it or are they still trying to get it resolved?

Just got off the phone with my buddy and he is pretty pissed about it. He said he going to check his when he gets home to see if his is jacked up.

This reminds me of the Focus that had the nitrous from roush or saleen but filling it voided the warranty. Or the GTR that shattered the POS $20k trannys the second you turned off launch control and voided the warranty in the process.

I'd like to know this as well without going thru every single page....

[mustang_revival]

There is nothing wrong with the frames itself...

There is pictures incluing a guy in Frisco of obviously bent frames.

[Sean88gt]

I'd like to know this as well without going thru every single page....

I posted the answer above....