Lucky us! 4th amendment just got weaker.

[03trubluGT]

Seems like this.

Matt is saying that just because it can doesn't mean it will.

Everyone else is saying that just because it isn't supposed to doesn't mean it wont.

Pretty much, but I'm reading that more are leaning toward since it is there, it will be abused on a grand scale.

I have said earlier that one of the most desireable traits that make a good officer is compassion. Being able to fairly enforce the law is a necessity. There is no black and white in my book. Just because you have an offense doesn't mean that you stop investigating and arrest the person for the worst charge you can. You have to take into consideration the totality of the circumstances and look past the superficial information. One must dig to get to the best truth possible. There may be mitigating factors, and you have to realize there are three sides to every story.

[mikec]

Pretty much, but I'm reading that more are leaning toward since it is there, it will be abused on a grand scale.

I have said earlier that one of the most desireable traits that make a good officer is compassion. Being able to fairly enforce the law is a necessity. There is no black and white in my book. Just because you have an offense doesn't mean that you stop investigating and arrest the person for the worst charge you can. You have to take into consideration the totality of the circumstances and look past the superficial information. One must dig to get to the best truth possible. There may be mitigating factors, and you have to realize there are three sides to every story.

More than anything the responses indicate a general lack of trust in law enforcement as a whole. Not necessarily that we really think this will occur, just that the profession as a whole is becoming more and more antagonistic towards the non law enforcement segments of society.

Fwiw, many of us realize that you are NOT one of those who embrace that approach.

[03trubluGT]

You've never given me that offer, but I talked to Jimmy about doing it last summer, but life happened. I've always wanted to.

Come on out. You can take next after Motoman.

[03trubluGT]

Ride out?! I thought you were a desk jockey.

I'm too young and fit to be riding a desk.

[Denny]

I'm too young and fit to be riding a desk.

So it's by choice?

[03trubluGT]

So it's by choice?

Patrol is the backbone of any department. That's where the action is. First responders get to chase the bad guys.

[Denny]

Patrol is the backbone of any department. That's where the action is. First responders get to chase the bad guys.

I was speaking about pushing ink.

[Forever_frost]

Personally I do try to behave somewhat civilized, even on this site - since our online persona is utilized in a variety of ways. As far as I'm concerned you and Treadhead are representatives of Police in general. I personally can see what you're going for most of the time, but a lot of these folks seem to have legitimate gripes about what the police have done to them in the past. (assuming they are telling the whole story)

Generally speaking though, I think a lot of people think cops are okay people. However, it's not the good cops that we're generally worried about. Maybe I should rephrase that so I'm not speaking for others - I am not worried about decent cops. I'm worried about bad cops and especially the politicians and other in their chain of command.

Just my two cents in reference to your comments. You have every right to say what you feel, but don't be surprised when it spins up the FTP'ers.





Sadly, when I was 17 to about 20 or maybe 19 if an NCO or officer said to do just about anything - I'd do it. Also, you have to understand that enlisted and probably officers don't understand all those details. If the command comes to secure an area, I would've done it w/o thought. If it pissed people off and I got shot at and my ROE said to fire back I would've.

However, something extreme like just going into some town and exterminating people would be different. I doubt the lower level units would get the orders like that... It might be a secure perimeter thing or something, but I'd hope that if the order came to destroy the town with small arms some flags would go up. However, it would probably just be bombs (which I don't know how the AF works on stuff like that). However, an unlawful order could be made to seem completely legitimate if desired. Further more, we were often instructed to follow orders first and handle the administrative side of those orders after the fact. (can't think of a specific example at the moment though, generally speaking though we were just dumb-ass kids)

Which is completely AGAINST how us Infantry are taught. You are to ALWAYS compare your orders against the constitution and the law and if they conflict you are to refuse. Immediately. Not after you're done.

[03trubluGT]

I was speaking about pushing ink.

You mean being a sergeant versus an officer?