Lucky us! 4th amendment just got weaker.

[Denny]

It takes more than desire to win a war, especially if the enemy is sufficiently motivated, such as preserving the union.

I think you're confused about restoring the union vs. preserving its destruction. Come on, Slider, you're smarter than this. Do you really think that odds stacked against us would forever halt our intentions? You honestly don't think that people with desire would rather die trying than sit on their hands and watch our liberites, rights and freedom get raped with each vote in Congress?

If it ever happens and the final straw breaks, all that marches on DC is 7 or 8 people, I hope my massacre is televised live for the world to see... for my children to see. I'll go in asking for the removal of the elected on grounds of treason since they've overstepped their Constitutional authority long ago.

If some pussy-ass platoon of GIs want to muscle me out and terminate me, they better get the first shot and make it count. I guess whatever it take to earn their enlisted pay for the day.

Am I in the minority? Hell yes! But I'm still there. Granted, I'm all talk until it actually happens, but everyone is wrong about something until they're right.

[SlowLX]

I call what do I win?

I left my disclaimer in there for those that don't go around talking about what they do in the military all the time. I'm mainly responding to the top 5 who post in this thread and the political forum about starting a newer nation. Are you one of those?

[SlowLX]

I think you're confused about restoring the union vs. preserving its destruction. Come on, Slider, you're smarter than this. Do you really think that odds stacked against us would forever halt our intentions? You honestly don't think that people with desire would rather die trying than sit on their hands and watch our liberites, rights and freedom get raped with each vote in Congress?

If it ever happens and the final straw breaks, all that marches on DC is 7 or 8 people, I hope my massacre is televised live for the world to see... for my children to see. I'll go in asking for the removal of the elected on grounds of treason since they've overstepped their Constitutional authority long ago.

If some pussy-ass platoon of GIs want to muscle me out and terminate me, they better get the first shot and make it count. I guess whatever it take to earn their enlisted pay for the day.

Am I in the minority? Hell yes! But I'm still there. Granted, I'm all talk until it actually happens, but everyone is wrong about something until they're right.

I'm smart enough to realize that it's never the common man who initiates this shit.

First revolution - land owning aristocracy and merchant class led the charge

2nd failed revolution - Southern congress which was comprised of land owning aristocracy led the charge.

Revolutions RARELY occur without upperclass support. That is all i've argued this entire thread on the issue.

[Denny]

I think you're underestimating how drawn to their CO's and small unit leaders the average 17-21 year old soldier is subconsciously. With out mass defections by the officer corps you won't see mass defections by the enlisted corps, because they will come down on them like an iron fist and most enlisted men who were wavering will revert back to a boot camp mentality to please their superiors without even realizing it.

You are also assuming the national guard would be called in to fire on their own US citizens first or the military for that matter. Think of all the crack pot militias over the years and how they've been neutralized, the FBI and federal law enforcement in general would be on any massive uprising like stink on shit before anything could get organized effectively.

So like I said, prove to me there is a logical and realistic way for your revolution to happen without mass defections from the upper units of the American military and government. If you try and stir up dissent in the military without being at least a full bird colonel your ass is going to Leavenworth no questions asked. The system is so entrenched into American society Denny, I honestly don't believe there is ANYTHING you or any of the other secessionists can do without help from a congressional split or Generals and Admirals splitting form the American government. Look at the last civil war even, it began with a congressional split. The American public is too fragmented and docile to do a fucking thing without proper motivation and support from their leaders. So if you're serious about wanting to create a second union or at least trash this system so bad it has to be reset my advice to you is to get elected and convince as many of your fellow congress members to follow you...take a few generals while you're at it. Because other wise if you try to do anything you'll just find your ass in jail.

Get elected? BAHAHAHA!!! I'd be in a larger minority than I am with the public!

Maybe you're right and I'm giving too much credit to our military for thinking that most would act in an honorable manner and uphold their oath.

"Let's see... uphold my oath or avoid a backhand from my superior?"

If that is truely what keeps the military on the side of these criminals, than that's an even bigger disappointment than the politicians. Where are the true patriots? Certainly not wearing BDUs, drawing down on the ones trying to restore order to our establishment.

[Couver]

I left my disclaimer in there for those that don't go around talking about what they do in the military all the time. I'm mainly responding to the top 5 who post in this thread and the political forum about starting a newer nation. Are you one of those?

I don't know if I am one of "those" but I would like to see some major changes in the way we do things. I'm kinda like an old 30's type isolationist in the fact I think we should keep our nose out of a lot of world affairs let those people figure out their own problems while we focus on ours. Keep our money here to help our economy and trade and keep a sstrong military just in case...

[The King]

The basis of the Constitutional Republic we are founded on was built to protect the rights of the individual/minority from being oppressed by tyranny from the majority. e.g. The majority taking the wealth from the minority through the "Democratic" process circa !900-2011 A.D.

Add in the two bolded words and I agree. Now, whether tyranny has been the norm in the U.S. democratic process since circa 1900 is open to debate.

[SlowLX]

Get elected? BAHAHAHA!!! I'd be in a larger minority than I am with the public!

Maybe you're right and I'm giving too much credit to our military for thinking that most would act in an honorable manner and uphold their oath.

"Let's see... uphold my oath or avoid a backhand from my superior?"

If that is truely what keeps the military on the side of these criminals, than that's an even bigger disappointment than the politicians. Where are the true patriots? Certainly not wearing BDUs, drawing down on the ones trying to restore order to our establishment.

You're still pandering with illogical statements that have no historical precedent for your argument. You're now equating the supreme discipline of the military with a malleable 18 year old being a criminal because he follows the order of his Lt or his Capt? You're also assuming the military is in cahoots with the government at the upper echelons for some purpose hidden from the American public. There are a shit ton of Generals in the last 15 years who have taken stands against the direction this nation is headed, but they're not mouthing a revolution. I guess they're criminals because they aren't carrying the cause of American liberties far enough?

[sc281]

Add in the two bolded words and I agree. Now, whether tyranny has been the norm in the U.S. democratic process since circa 1900 is open to debate.

Agreed. I pulled the date out of my ass because I didn't feel like looking up the exact date the Progressives gained a foothold in American Politics.

[SlowLX]

I don't know if I am one of "those" but I would like to see some major changes in the way we do things. I'm kinda like an old 30's type isolationist in the fact I think we should keep our nose out of a lot of world affairs let those people figure out their own problems while we focus on ours. Keep our money here to help our economy and trade and keep a sstrong military just in case...

We built our empire on intervention, isolationism would require a return to a less powerful and more unstable country. Our economy is dependent on our intervention, people the world over secretly want to be American because they think we can project ourselves and our identity anywhere with impunity.

[The King]

Agreed. I pulled the date out of my ass because I didn't feel like looking up the exact date the Progressives gained a foothold in American Politics.

No problem, much of what you've posted in this thread is good stuff.

[01yz2nv]

In the words of Jim Carrey in Liar Liar- " Stop breaking the law, asshole!!"

[Denny]

You're still pandering with illogical statements that have no historical precedent for your argument. You're now equating the supreme discipline of the military with a malleable 18 year old being a criminal because he follows the order of his Lt or his Capt? You're also assuming the military is in cahoots with the government at the upper echelons for some purpose hidden from the American public. There are a shit ton of Generals in the last 15 years who have taken stands against the direction this nation is headed, but they're not mouthing a revolution. I guess they're criminals because they aren't carrying the cause of American liberties far enough?

Never said that shit. Now you're trying to put words in my mouth. Shame on you. The criminals are the ones that would act against a revolt to remove the other criminals in office. I never said the military was in cahoots either, just ignorant if they would continue to follow the orders of the Federal government that would call for the termination of the revolt. They could support, stand aside or intervene. 18 or 35, age doesn't matter. If they're old enough to raise their right hand, then they're old enough to exercise their discretion.

And those stars aren't criminals for not calling for a revolt either. Just the ones trying to stop it.

[Couver]

We built our empire on intervention, isolationism would require a return to a less powerful and more unstable country. Our economy is dependent on our intervention, people the world over secretly want to be American because they think we can project ourselves and our identity anywhere with impunity.

Hence the reason I said Kinda... I don't want to give up the ability to project power at all. It is what my "company" does. I just feel we are a little to much up in others shit when we have enough problems of our own that need to be delt with...

[Denny]

Add in the two bolded words and I agree. Now, whether tyranny has been the norm in the U.S. democratic process since circa 1900 is open to debate.

At LEAST since 1910, if not earlier.

[SlowLX]

At LEAST since 1910, if not earlier.

Try the end of the civil war. To the national govt that win will always provide justification for overriding the rights of the states.