So how does this work? 30.xx sign removal

[Jose]

So I'm Catholic and my church is marked with 30.06 and 30.07 signs. Now they are talking about removing the signs but still not allowing guns. Makes no fucking sense.

So how does this work? They remove the signs, they say they still don't want people carrying. Will it be legal to carry if they remove the signs even with this statement? Or is this considered effective notification?

http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2017/11/06/diocese-dallas-considers-gun-measures/

Diocese Of Dallas Considers New Gun Measures
November 6, 2017 9:14 PM By Andrea Lucia
Filed Under: Bishop Edward Burns, Dallas Catholic, Diocese of Dallas, Gun Safety, Sutherland Springs

DALLAS (CBS11) – Signs prohibiting guns could soon disappear from Catholic churches in Dallas.

Bishop Edward Burns has asked parishes to consider removing them following the church shooting in Sutherland Springs.

The Diocese said in a statement it wants “to eliminate the perception that any of our parishes would be an easy target for terror.”

Its policy on guns isn’t changing, though.

“The policy of prohibiting the open and concealed possession of firearms at our parishes still stands,” said the Diocese.

The Bishop is consulting with others on appropriate safety measures and also asking parishes to increase security at large gatherings.

The Diocese says its goal is to allow parishioners and their guests to safely worship free of fear.

Here is the full statement from the Diocese.

[AnthonyS]

I know if your employer tells you it is the same as posting a sign. So it would definitely apply to church employees.... I'm not sure about church goers.

If you want to be a hard target take down the signs and have special prayers to bless LTC folks with great aim and discernment.

Until this country returns to its pro religion and pro firearms roots we will have terrorists looking for soft targets. If we start putting bullets in their skulls the second they start their nonsense will stop.

[Gasser64]

To read the handbook, issued by the state of texas, no sign = free to carry. Sans the obvious exceptions that we all already know about. That is the purpose of the sign, and they must have it in order to be covered by law. Otherwise it all becomes much too vague and too much hassle for police and the government to put up with/keep track of. So you must have a sign.

Just carry it anyway, fuck 'em. They'll never know.

[LANTIRN]

If they tell you not to carry it is the same as a sign and if you refuse to leave after being told to it is tresspassing. However I doubt they stand in the door every sunday and tell everyone as they enter, and I doubt they tell you during the sermon each and every sunday. So if you want to continue going there I guess you must have been absent the day they discussed this and one day you showed up ad the signs were gone so you assumed they allowed carry now.

If your church wants to ban carry but you want a gun on you you have two options. Find a new church or carry and technically break the law.

Edit: remember in Texas most places a violation of a .06 or .07 sign is a misdemeanor (bars and a few places are felonies), and I think it comes as a warning or maybe fine for the first offense. Concealed means concealed in most places. A small pistol in an ankle holster is easy to hide, or pocket carry a .380. Catholics do a lot of kneeling so just take the movement into consideration and practice in front of a mirror. Also Texas has a defense to prosecution clause so if you are carrying after having been notified and you stop a shooting you should still be protected, but that isn't guranteed.

[Gasser64]

If they tell you not to carry it is the same as a sign and if you refuse to leave after being told to it is tresspassing.

That is true. But after all, they never told you specifically, and you didn't know. You were under the impression that they took the signs down so it must not be too much of a concern. Right? So I'd just carry anyway and keep it to yourself.

There is also this. I can't remember the wording because its been years since I read it. But its something along the lines of, if they don't allow you to carry a gun, they can be held legally liable in the event that you are injured or killed as a result of you being unarmed.

Its a law that kind of bites back at the people who just frivolously want to keep guns away. Well you don't want any guns? Fine, you're liable if something bad happens and they sue you over it.

[LS1Goat]

If the signs are gone then you can carry being a law abiding citizen with a CHL. I don't see how legally they could say you couldn't. It would be a good question to ask an attorney. Considering what's happened recently, I would want to carry. In fact, wasn't there a bystander at the Texas church shooting that fired back. NRA is calling him a hero.

[The King]

If they tell you not to carry it is the same as a sign and if you refuse to leave after being told to it is tresspassing. However I doubt they stand in the door every sunday and tell everyone as they enter, and I doubt they tell you during the sermon each and every sunday. So if you want to continue going there I guess you must have been absent the day they discussed this and one day you showed up ad the signs were gone so you assumed they allowed carry now.

If your church wants to ban carry but you want a gun on you you have two options. Find a new church or carry and technically break the law.

Edit: remember in Texas most places a violation of a .06 or .07 sign is a misdemeanor (bars and a few places are felonies), and I think it comes as a warning or maybe fine for the first offense. Concealed means concealed in most places. A small pistol in an ankle holster is easy to hide, or pocket carry a .380. Catholics do a lot of kneeling so just take the movement into consideration and practice in front of a mirror. Also Texas has a defense to prosecution clause so if you are carrying after having been notified and you stop a shooting you should still be protected, but that isn't guranteed.

^^^^^
What this man said.

If the 30.06 and 30.07 signage is taken down, the church must provide notice (verbally or otherwise) that carrying is not allowed. Carrying in spite of such notice constitutes trespassing, just like in any private business that chooses to do so.

[BP]

If they ask you individually to leave the premises you'd be trespassing if you stayed. Otherwise without signage you aren't legally doing anything wrong.

[GeorgeG.]

My take on this. They want people to know they can carry but don't want to be held liable in any way by telling people they can carry.

I'd conceal with no worries. If/When the day comes that you have a situation requiring you to draw your weapon, I'd worry about the penalties after the fact.

[Chili]

My take on this. They want people to know they can carry but don't want to be held liable in any way by telling people they can carry.

I'd conceal with no worries. If/When the day comes that you have a situation requiring you to draw your weapon, I'd worry about the penalties after the fact.

That's the way I take it as well. IMO It's a bit of a wink and nod so that people who actually have their LTC and understand the law will start to carry while the uneducated masses still 'feel' safe due to their ignorance.

[Jose]

Let's just say I have been within the law by always entering a certain entrance to my church

And I guess that makes more sense than anything GeorgeG., the liability part.

That being said, I'm hoping the "two" signs come down soon at my church so that others who were on the fence about carrying can now do so without fear of prosecution.

[GeorgeG.]

Our church has the .07 sign up as to not create any sense of fear for those that don't carry or whatever. I'm okay with that. I think open carry in a church would draw too much attention and cause the congregation to lose focus of the Word.

[Jose]

Mine has the .06 on one side entrance and a .07 on the other side of the church. The main entrance, as far as I know, has no signage. Let's just say I don't open carry

[ceyko]

My take on this. They want people to know they can carry but don't want to be held liable in any way by telling people they can carry.

I'd conceal with no worries. If/When the day comes that you have a situation requiring you to draw your weapon, I'd worry about the penalties after the fact.

I don' t know - as a Catholic I think the Catholic church's outlook on guns/the US 2A is retarded and I've seen it too much. Do what you want in the Vatican, but here in the US do not tell me what to do with my guns.

[Jose]

So surprisingly, I attended church this morning and the signs were gone; I didn't think they would move this quickly. No mention of their removal during mass nor any comments were given about NOT carrying.

I'm glad they are thinking proactively after this recent tragedy and I hope no other evil person will think that a church will be such an easy target again. Now if only other business that are against carry will follow.

Anybody else seen any changes? Church or otherwise?