Argument points regarding an 80% AR15 build

[Jose]

So I'm having a debate with someone regarding an 80% build. I'm obviously pro gun, the other person not so.

His argument is that there is absolutely no reason that the 80% builds should be legal and that it makes it entirely to easy for criminals to have access to "untraceable" firearms and he considers this a safety issue for citizens.

My idea is that this is not a means that most criminals will use to obtain a firearm and that most criminals would more than likely obtain firearms illegal either by theft, straw purchases, or buying it from an individual.

I honestly don't know what the percentage of criminals use firearms obtained through an 80% build to commit crimes but my thinking is that it is low. Any idea what the stats are? Or what you think they are?

I have sorta looked into what it takes to build an 80% AR15 but haven't pursued it any further than that because I have none of the equipment that I am aware of that it takes to build one; namely a drill press and the jig. Is it really that easy to build one? I'm talking about the laymen who has no firearm building experience.

The person I'm debating this with thinks it's pretty easy based on a video he saw of a retired ATF agent building one. I haven't seen this video but I'm guessing it was heavily edited to show a certain point of view.

Anyway I'm kinda curious what you guys think about this and also looking for some good points I could bring up.

[Chas_svo]

Has any AR that started at 80% every been used in a crime? Sounds like they are trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist.

Tell them to just buy a ghost gun.

[Buick355]

It's just as easy to start with 0%. There are CAD models all over the internet for lowers. Criminals aren't going to go through the trouble of machining shit and building an AR. It wold be a lot easier to buy one privately. If the seller requires an ID (like they should) Mr criminal can show a fake ID. Then grind serial number off.

[svauto-erotic855]

Has any AR that started at 80% every been used in a crime? Sounds like they are trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist.

Tell them to just buy a ghost gun.

A mass shooter in CA used a home built AR using an 80 percent lower a few years ago.

[KBScobravert]

I've done an 80%. I bought a billet lower, the best jig I could find, the most expensive bits and the hand router they recommend. I went slow. I measured carefully and took my time. It looks like shit. I haven't assembled it with a lower parts kit yet but it should hold a drop in trigger and all the other necessary parts. It won't win any beauty pageants but should work. Maybe my second attempt will turn out better.

That said, any build a bomb easier than building an off the books AR lower.

[Gargamel]

LMAO at people think that it requires degrees in engineering and metallurgy to build something that will propel an object fast enough to hurt\kill someone. The whole ban\registration crap for simple semi-auto firearms is stupid to begin with.

As far as the standard "criminal" who gets a gun, why would they take the time\effort to screw with an 80% lower?

The normal low level thug will get one via black market or steal one to suit his needs.

[garycrist]

I love how "some of those people" will always have a "but the
criminal could, blah, blah, blah, for the children". Don't the
criminals just drive away the anti-everything's pick-up truck?
The one that he left his keys in. Now the crooks drive through
the gun store and steal 50 guns! Why dick with it when AR's
can be stolen from 7/11

[Gasser64]

But the criminal could also sharpen a stick he picked up off the ground. What then? Or he could go high tech and get a sling shot. You could kill lots of people with a slingshot before you were caught. Its even pretty quiet too.

Point is it doesn't matter what argument you make, these types of people know only fear and submission.

[DON SVO]

The argument baffles me. You don't have to register a gun once you buy it. Rifles in most states and F2F transactions don't require a background check. 99% of mass shooters kill themselves or keep going until LEO/armed citizen does it for them, so who fucking cares who's name the gun is registered in?

[AnthonyS]

Tell this moron that we should ban water in order to stop all the senseless drownings. Fuck libtards. Let's ban food to stop obesity and heart disease too. Maybe we should ban cars, buses, boats, trucks, and airplanes too!!!! Imagine all the little cars we could save.

[Nash B.]

The argument baffles me. You don't have to register a gun once you buy it. Rifles in most states and F2F transactions don't require a background check. 99% of mass shooters kill themselves or keep going until LEO/armed citizen does it for them, so who fucking cares who's name the gun is registered in?

The only rifle I've bought was my 10/22 many years ago but I'm pretty sure I had to fill out a 4473 and they would've done a NICS check if I hadn't had a CHL

[DON SVO]

The only rifle I've bought was my 10/22 many years ago but I'm pretty sure I had to fill out a 4473 and they would've done a NICS check if I hadn't had a CHL

I should have clarified and said after first sale, as in a gun show type purchase.

[svauto-erotic855]

The argument baffles me. You don't have to register a gun once you buy it. Rifles in most states and F2F transactions don't require a background check. 99% of mass shooters kill themselves or keep going until LEO/armed citizen does it for them, so who fucking cares who's name the gun is registered in?

When dealing with liberals the issue being argued is never the actual issue. They want guns out of the hands of everyone except government. To do that they have to know that a gun exist and who the gun owners are. The push for universal background checks is a first steep on a very long path to a total ban on private gun ownership. People being able to make their own guns without the government ever know about it throws a huge wrench into their plans.

They desperately want private gun ownership gone and they see that goal as becoming an unreachable one and are starting to freak out about it.

[YALE]

The only rifle I've bought was my 10/22 many years ago but I'm pretty sure I had to fill out a 4473 and they would've done a NICS check if I hadn't had a CHL

You still didn't register it.

[Gasser64]

When dealing with liberals the issue being argued is never the actual issue.

Truth

They desperately want private gun ownership gone and they see that goal as becoming an unreachable one and are starting to freak out about it.

That is because if they can't get it, their extremely ill conceived fantasy utopia can never come true, and indeed never would have. It was beaten before it ever started. Which is great, since we all know its just the 1984 distopia. Reasons such as this is why I think that all we have to do is hold out against them for just another decade or two (perhaps 3) and they're finished. There is no question that technology, if allowed to flourish in a free market, is going to kill any and all of their arguments.