Open Carry. Holster Choices?

[SS Junk]

Don't flatter yourself. There is only one assholeface. Still have mine after a year of using during rigorous activity. Holding up like a champ. I'll sell it for a dollar off new price.

[Cobraman]

Don't flatter yourself. There is only one assholeface. Still have mine after a year of using during rigorous activity. Holding up like a champ. I'll sell it for a dollar off new price.

after a year of rigorous activity, your wife is holding up like a champ. I'll sell her for a dollar.

[SS Junk]

You would like to think that, but as you well know, it was from the glory hole you were working. Don't deny since probie can verify. It's no wonder where that screen name originated.

[Cobraman]

You would like to think that, but as you well know, it was from the glory hole you were working. Don't deny since probie can verify. It's no wonder where that screen name originated.

Lol I'm a fan of any probie joke

[mustang_revival]

Something with double retention.

[GhostTX]

Not a fan of SERPA, only because I've read too many stories of NDs.

[IHaveAMustang]

Not a fan of SERPA, only because I've read too many stories of NDs.

I love my SERPA and I specifically love that I have to depress a button to draw. I had so many people tell me at 3 gun events that it causes ND's and that I'll shoot my leg off, but when I draw my index finger slides perfectly onto the frame just above the trigger...haven't shot my leg off yet.

Once Open Carry goes into effect, especially since it will be winter, I will be carrying my G22 or USP40 in a SERPA paddle and just cover with my Peacoat

[Strychnine]

I won't be doing any open carry other than not typically worrying about my concealment. Probably still keep with my IWB holsters also

that.



... or this?

[GhostTX]

I love my SERPA and I specifically love that I have to depress a button to draw. I had so many people tell me at 3 gun events that it causes ND's and that I'll shoot my leg off, but when I draw my index finger slides perfectly onto the frame just above the trigger...haven't shot my leg off yet.

Once Open Carry goes into effect, especially since it will be winter, I will be carrying my G22 or USP40 in a SERPA paddle and just cover with my Peacoat

Never had an issue with my SERPA either, but I shelved it, especially when the training facility I go to banned it BECAUSE of people shooting themselves in the leg.

[IHaveAMustang]

Never had an issue with my SERPA either, but I shelved it, especially when the training facility I go to banned it BECAUSE of people shooting themselves in the leg.

For some reason I chuckled at that. I feel bad now.

[GhostTX]

For some reason I chuckled at that. I feel bad now.

For your reading pleasure:

Incident #9 - Here are the facts:

Incident occurred on June 21, 2010 , the final day of a four-day defensive course at approximately 4:30 p.m.
18 students were on the firing line along with the Front Sight Range Master, Instructors and other Line Coaches.
The students were at 7 yards and shooting at turning, electronic targets.
The student was presenting his weapon from a concealed holster when the incident occurred.
The student was doing very well in the course with no indications of improper procedures or safety violations.
Weapon used was a Springfield Armory XD 45 ACP handgun with no obvious modifications.
Holster was an unmodified, Blackhawk Serpa CQC designed for the Springfield XD.
Bullet was 230 grain, full metal jacket.
The student was immediately cared for by Front Sight's staff.
The bullet entered the upper thigh just below the belt and forward of the holster. The bullet traveled just under the skin for approximately 18 inches, exited from under the skin at about knee level.
The bullet struck the ground near the student's feet and was recovered.
First aid in the form of a compression bandage and vital sign monitoring was administered by Front Sight's staff. The student remained remarkably calm with strong vital signs.
The student was transported by helicopter to a hospital emergency room in Las Vegas .
The student was cared for at the emergency room and discharged within two hours.


Opinions:

The only way a weapon can be fired is to place a finger on the trigger and then press the trigger. Using the physical evidence available and discussions with student, it appears the only explanation for this incident is the following:

On the presentation or "draw stroke" of his weapon, the student swept the concealment garment away, established the proper firing grip with finger along the outside of the holster. As he began to withdraw the weapon from the holster, he likely violated Safety Rule 3 and allowed his finger inside the trigger guard and subsequently pressed the trigger causing the weapon to fire.

Remember that the proper draw stroke involves keeping your finger out of the trigger guard and off the trigger until the weapon is pointed downrange at the target. Again, the only way a weapon can be fired is to press the trigger.

Incident #10 - Here are the facts:

Incident occurred on February 7, 2011, the final day of a four-day defensive handgun course at approximately 2:00 p.m.
19 students were on the firing line along with the Front Sight Range Master, two other Instructors, plus all student Coaches for a 1-to-1 ratio of students to coaches.
The students were at 7 yards shooting head shots from a concealed holster.
Weapon used was a Springfield XD 40 caliber handgun with no obvious modifications.
Bullet was a 180 grain, full metal jacket "ball" round.
The holster was a Blackhawk Serpa designed for the XD and was equipped with a trigger guard retention device.
The bullet hit the top of the holster before passing through the pants and entering the upper thigh about five inches below the point of the hip. There was no exit wound.
The student was immediately cared for by two Front Sight staff members.
First aid in the form of a compression bandage, supplemental oxygen, and vital sign monitoring was administered by Front Sight staff. The student remained remarkably calm with strong vital signs.
The student was transported by helicopter to a hospital emergency room in Las Vegas.
The bullet had lodged near the knee and was left in place by the physicians. The student was released from the hospital in under two hours.

Opinions:

The student commented that when he presented the weapon, his finger slipped onto the trigger after disengaging the retention device of the holster. This is a clear violation of Safety Rule 3 which caused the weapon to fire.

Remember that the proper "draw" stroke involves keeping your finger out of the trigger guard and off the trigger until the weapon is pointed downrange at the target. Again, the only way a weapon can be fired is to press the trigger.

Incident #11 - Here are the facts:

Incident occurred on April 12, 2011, the second day of a four-day defensive handgun course at approximately 3:20 p.m.
18 students were on the firing line along with the Front Sight Range Master, three other Instructors, plus the student coaches for a 1-to-1 ratio of students to coaches.
The students were at 7 yards and shooting controlled pairs from an exposed holster.
Weapon used was a Springfield 1911 45 ACP caliber handgun with no obvious modifications.
Bullet was a 230 grain, full metal jacket "ball" round.
The holster was a Blackhawk Serpa designed for the 1911 and was equipped with a trigger guard retention device.
The bullet passed through the pants and entered the upper thigh below the point of the hip. The bullet exited just below the knee.
The student was immediately cared for by two Front Sight staff members as well as a student who was a medical doctor.
First aid in the form of a compression bandage, supplemental oxygen, and vital sign monitoring was administered by Front Sight staff. The student remained very calm with strong vital signs.
The student was transported by helicopter to a hospital emergency room in Las Vegas where his wounds were treated and he was discharged.

Opinions:

Upon “drawing” the weapon from the holster, the student disengaged the thumb safety on his 1911 way too soon (at Count 1 or 2 instead of Count 4). Additionally, the student’s finger slipped onto the trigger after disengaging the retention device of the Serpa holster. This was a clear violation of Safety Rule 3 and caused the weapon to fire.

Remember that the proper "draw" stroke involves keeping your finger out of the trigger guard and off the trigger until the weapon is pointed downrange at the target. Again, the only way a weapon can be fired is to press the trigger.

[IHaveAMustang]

Man, all by helicopter. That got expensive real fast.

[Strychnine]

The bullet had lodged near the knee and was left in place by the physicians. The student was released from the hospital in under two hours.

Is this common???

[SS Junk]

Man, all by helicopter. That got expensive real fast.

I would think it would be standard procedure to aide in the avoidance of some sort of liability issue? Especially if there were no facilities close to care for a gunshot wound? Same thing happened at a gun range I was at several years ago. A guy shot himself in the leg, paramedics were called, he was put on a gurney, thrown into an ambulance and it then parked in the middle of the parking lot waiting for CareFlight.

[KBScobravert]

For your reading pleasure:

Incident #9 - Here are the facts:

Incident occurred on June 21, 2010 , the final day of a four-day defensive course at approximately 4:30 p.m.
18 students were on the firing line along with the Front Sight Range Master, Instructors and other Line Coaches.
The students were at 7 yards and shooting at turning, electronic targets.
The student was presenting his weapon from a concealed holster when the incident occurred.
The student was doing very well in the course with no indications of improper procedures or safety violations.
Weapon used was a Springfield Armory XD 45 ACP handgun with no obvious modifications.
Holster was an unmodified, Blackhawk Serpa CQC designed for the Springfield XD.
Bullet was 230 grain, full metal jacket.
The student was immediately cared for by Front Sight's staff.
The bullet entered the upper thigh just below the belt and forward of the holster. The bullet traveled just under the skin for approximately 18 inches, exited from under the skin at about knee level.
The bullet struck the ground near the student's feet and was recovered.
First aid in the form of a compression bandage and vital sign monitoring was administered by Front Sight's staff. The student remained remarkably calm with strong vital signs.
The student was transported by helicopter to a hospital emergency room in Las Vegas .
The student was cared for at the emergency room and discharged within two hours.


Opinions:

The only way a weapon can be fired is to place a finger on the trigger and then press the trigger. Using the physical evidence available and discussions with student, it appears the only explanation for this incident is the following:

On the presentation or "draw stroke" of his weapon, the student swept the concealment garment away, established the proper firing grip with finger along the outside of the holster. As he began to withdraw the weapon from the holster, he likely violated Safety Rule 3 and allowed his finger inside the trigger guard and subsequently pressed the trigger causing the weapon to fire.

Remember that the proper draw stroke involves keeping your finger out of the trigger guard and off the trigger until the weapon is pointed downrange at the target. Again, the only way a weapon can be fired is to press the trigger.

Incident #10 - Here are the facts:

Incident occurred on February 7, 2011, the final day of a four-day defensive handgun course at approximately 2:00 p.m.
19 students were on the firing line along with the Front Sight Range Master, two other Instructors, plus all student Coaches for a 1-to-1 ratio of students to coaches.
The students were at 7 yards shooting head shots from a concealed holster.
Weapon used was a Springfield XD 40 caliber handgun with no obvious modifications.
Bullet was a 180 grain, full metal jacket "ball" round.
The holster was a Blackhawk Serpa designed for the XD and was equipped with a trigger guard retention device.
The bullet hit the top of the holster before passing through the pants and entering the upper thigh about five inches below the point of the hip. There was no exit wound.
The student was immediately cared for by two Front Sight staff members.
First aid in the form of a compression bandage, supplemental oxygen, and vital sign monitoring was administered by Front Sight staff. The student remained remarkably calm with strong vital signs.
The student was transported by helicopter to a hospital emergency room in Las Vegas.
The bullet had lodged near the knee and was left in place by the physicians. The student was released from the hospital in under two hours.

Opinions:

The student commented that when he presented the weapon, his finger slipped onto the trigger after disengaging the retention device of the holster. This is a clear violation of Safety Rule 3 which caused the weapon to fire.

Remember that the proper "draw" stroke involves keeping your finger out of the trigger guard and off the trigger until the weapon is pointed downrange at the target. Again, the only way a weapon can be fired is to press the trigger.

Incident #11 - Here are the facts:

Incident occurred on April 12, 2011, the second day of a four-day defensive handgun course at approximately 3:20 p.m.
18 students were on the firing line along with the Front Sight Range Master, three other Instructors, plus the student coaches for a 1-to-1 ratio of students to coaches.
The students were at 7 yards and shooting controlled pairs from an exposed holster.
Weapon used was a Springfield 1911 45 ACP caliber handgun with no obvious modifications.
Bullet was a 230 grain, full metal jacket "ball" round.
The holster was a Blackhawk Serpa designed for the 1911 and was equipped with a trigger guard retention device.
The bullet passed through the pants and entered the upper thigh below the point of the hip. The bullet exited just below the knee.
The student was immediately cared for by two Front Sight staff members as well as a student who was a medical doctor.
First aid in the form of a compression bandage, supplemental oxygen, and vital sign monitoring was administered by Front Sight staff. The student remained very calm with strong vital signs.
The student was transported by helicopter to a hospital emergency room in Las Vegas where his wounds were treated and he was discharged.

Opinions:

Upon “drawing” the weapon from the holster, the student disengaged the thumb safety on his 1911 way too soon (at Count 1 or 2 instead of Count 4). Additionally, the student’s finger slipped onto the trigger after disengaging the retention device of the Serpa holster. This was a clear violation of Safety Rule 3 and caused the weapon to fire.

Remember that the proper "draw" stroke involves keeping your finger out of the trigger guard and off the trigger until the weapon is pointed downrange at the target. Again, the only way a weapon can be fired is to press the trigger.

I have to chuckle a little at the fact they have their report down to a single format because of all the times it has happened. Simply open the last report and go through it sentence by sentence changing what needs to be changed to fit the present incident.