Who's gonna open carry?

[Baba Ganoush]

LANTIRN,

I get your gist about paying their dues back to society and proving they've changed their ways, and many felons retain their rights to do this everyday. However, a vast majority of folks that want to carry sans permit or "constitutional carry" think they're entitled to many other privileges without proving they're a responsible individual. Driving and carrying a firearm in public are not rights granted by god, they're privileges afforded to those who prove they are capable of the responsibility. We have to be able to hold folks accountable for their actions and without some regulation, the responsible folks will ultimately suffer the consequences.

[Cobraman]

lantirn,

i get your gist about paying their dues back to society and proving they've changed their ways, and many felons retain their rights to do this everyday. However, a vast majority of folks that want to carry sans permit or "constitutional carry" think they're entitled to many other privileges without proving they're a responsible individual. Driving and carrying a firearm in public are not rights granted by god, they're privileges afforded to those who prove they are capable of the responsibility. We have to be able to hold folks accountable for their actions and without some regulation, the responsible folks will ultimately suffer the consequences.

no! Open carry is a god given right1!!1!

[YALE]

LANTIRN,

I get your gist about paying their dues back to society and proving they've changed their ways, and many felons retain their rights to do this everyday. However, a vast majority of folks that want to carry sans permit or "constitutional carry" think they're entitled to many other privileges without proving they're a responsible individual. Driving and carrying a firearm in public are not rights granted by god, they're privileges afforded to those who prove they are capable of the responsibility. We have to be able to hold folks accountable for their actions and without some regulation, the responsible folks will ultimately suffer the consequences.

A lot of people don't understand that "god-given" to the framers was the Spinoza's god model, not Yahweh.

[GhostTX]

A lot of people don't understand that "god-given" to the framers was the Spinoza's god model, not Yahweh.

However you want to spin it, the point made was that "rights" come from a power higher than people. If rights come from people, than people can take them away at will.

[ceyko]

I don't disagree with any of that except for people automatically getting their rights back. You can be in society and still not be trusted with certain things, like crazy people with firearms, uncontrolled narcolepsy and driving. The list goes on. The thing with rights that are taken away is the fact that they've proven they can't be trusted with those rights, and now they must prove that they can be trusted with them. Those who do rehabilitate and choose to can petition the court to get their rights back, I have no problem with people who have learned their lesson and proved that they are now trustworthy getting their rights back, but much like the road to citizenship, the road to getting your rights back has, and needs, a process.

I was going to argue the same point, but he mentioned a probationary period afterwards. I can't disagree with you or him either. I think a lot of folks end up back in because they can't live with the record.

I also think that companies are still going to have the ability to require them to answer truthfully if they have a record. That's their choice, but as far as basic rights as a citizen - we could do better at treating them correctly.

Then the other side of me thinks "f them" if they are rapists/murderers - but SOME of these can be really sketchy convictions.

[YALE]

However you want to spin it, the point made was that "rights" come from a power higher than people. If rights come from people, than people can take them away at will.

Rights come from a social contract. We've agreed (at least implicitly) to a process, and agreed that this works for us, and are constantly renegotiating and redefining that social contract. That's what a political process is.

[John -- '02 HAWK]

which god

[TripleXLWolfShirt]

I am very disappointed in you all for falling for somebody named "TripleXLWolfShirt", and responding to said comments seriously, and often long-windedly.

Also this morning I shaved everything but my neck area for this glorious photo:

[FunFordCobra]

U gay nukka. That's DHOCTOR right? Upsidedown? Ah edit: He's rightside up again lol

[lowthreeohz]

Lmao well done.

[Chili]

which god

I think it is this one:

[LANTIRN]

I don't disagree with any of that except for people automatically getting their rights back. You can be in society and still not be trusted with certain things, like crazy people with firearms, uncontrolled narcolepsy and driving. The list goes on. The thing with rights that are taken away is the fact that they've proven they can't be trusted with those rights, and now they must prove that they can be trusted with them. Those who do rehabilitate and choose to can petition the court to get their rights back, I have no problem with people who have learned their lesson and proved that they are now trustworthy getting their rights back, but much like the road to citizenship, the road to getting your rights back has, and needs, a process.

I understand, and I am not saying the process needs to be a quick as paying a speeding ticket, but right now it seems like you spend 20 or 30 years in prison paying off the debt you owe, then go to probation for a year or two, then if I am correct you have to wait many more years to get the right back. I would like to see that done after the probationary period. I am even ok with the individual having to make the petition through a judge for it. I just think we need to streamline this a little and start treating people who have a record with a little more respect once they have served their. I have heard the rights restoration can take another 10 years. I don't know how true that is, but it seems pretty excessive to me after they have already served a prison sentence and successfully completed probation for however many years. But onto the other part about them not being trusted. Yes that is true, but if they can't be trusted why are they allowed out of prison? The system is broken on both sides.

[mstng86]

LMGDAO at dochtr

[Chili]

I am very disappointed in you all for falling for somebody named "TripleXLWolfShirt", and responding to said comments seriously, and often long-windedly.

Also this morning I shaved everything but my neck area for this glorious photo:

Damn you.. It was much more fun when I thought it was a real person.

[Chas_svo]

Alex bored?