keyholing

[likeitfast55]

Old gun, Colt 1903 .32 pocket hammerless. The rifling look ok. A little pitting on the inside, nothing too bad. The crown has this on it, would this cause that?

Any thoughts? Barrels for these are getting hard to find.

R

[CJ]

pictures are a little difficult to see, but that crown looks pretty damn bad. I would recrown the barrel and see if that fixes it. Also, take an unfired round and let it sit in the muzzle and see how far it sits in. I would also measure the bore diameter (even better if you know how to slug a barrel). If it's blown out, another option you have is to have the barrel rechambered/rifled to .380 acp, which is a larger diameter projectile. The guns can be converted with little effort.

[likeitfast55]

These are not very clear, Dam I phone........ I will get my other camera out. The bullet is very loose in the chamber when I drop it in with the barrel removed. You can wiggle it a very small amount with your fingernail. I guess I will bring it to a smith.
Barrel re-crowned first.

[CJ]

bore diameter looks okay. What makes you think they are keyholing? Was the target supported well? If it doesn't have good support, it will tear, and look like keyholing.

[likeitfast55]

From what I have read today, these old guns were shot a lot. I believe this one is no exception. I understand that barrel swelling(blown out) will cause keyholing as well. The paper looked like I threw the lead at it CJ. All other guns made normal tears. I am trying to locate another barrel, this might be a task. I have some people to call about re-lining this one as well. A .380 bore will not work alone. There are several things that need to be changed out. The gun is just not worth that kind of effort and money.
Thanks for the info CJ.

[CJ]

There are several things that need to be changed out.

Where did you read that? It's a spring and you adjust the extractor from my experience.

[likeitfast55]

Off of a Colt forum, this is but one guy,,,,,

"Wow! I started this post to say that I didn't believe the pistol magazine well was simply filed out on the .32 frame to take the .380 magazine.

But I measured the mag wells, and then noticed that the frame on either side was the same thickness. How could that be, unless the frame itself was wider? So I measured the frames and slides of .32 and .380 pistols, and got a surprise.

Not only is the .380 magazine wider and the magazine well wider than those of the .32, the frame is wider, as is the slide. The slides will usually interchange due to the tolerances in manufacturing, but it is clear to me that they are different. Conventional wisdom has it that Colt simply took the .32, installed a new barrel, made some small changes, and produced the .380 version. Not true. Not only are the magazine and magazine well sized specifically for the .380, the whole gun is different, made for the larger cartridge.

So, here are the measurements, .32 first, followed by .380:
Width of magazine: .423" - .439"
Magazine well width: .435" - .446"
Magazine well length: .1.070" - 1.129"
Frame at rails: .615" - .629"
Slide width: .767" - .779"

Conventional wisdom, hell, they are different guns! Colt didn't just do a quick barrel change, they made a whole new gun, specifically tailored for the .380."

Further reading revealed that varying dimensions are not uncommon from type I to type III and IV. It seems that it is the luck of the draw as to weather the .32 mag and ejector will function with .380.

In all fairness I am aware of some .32 to .380 conversions that have worked, but I'm also aware of some that didn't.

During the time that the model M was made Colt, was able to do an extraordinary amount of handwork on each pistol. Since the "M" designation covered both caliber pistols I suspect that the raw frames and slides might have been the same, but that those intended to be made into .380 pistols were altered by someone, or the final assembler using a file(s). This could account for the reason that some .380 pistols (at least those sold to the armed forces during late World War Two) had some feeding and other problems that didn't show up in the 1903 .32 pistols.

I've found some evidence that he may be right, but at the same time we know that in some cases a .32 to .380 conversion is possible. I'm less sure about a .380 to .32 set-up though. One issue is the ejector. Colt apparently used the same ejector on both guns, but if the larger .380 case hit the ejector to soon it could cause a jam. Colt got around ths by having final assemblers modify the ejector in .380 pistols when necessary, rather then stocking two different sizes. If one puts a .380 slide on a .32 frame that still has an unmodified .32 ejector there might be a problem. On the other hand if the ejector is opened up for the .380 case it might, or might not still work with the smaller .32's. Extractor hook fit might be an issue too. They were also hand fitted. To tell the truth, the whole gun was hand fitted.

[CJ]

As far as the mag well widths, that would just possibly result in a single less round for capacity, seeing as both cartridges are the same OAL. I have shot two that were converted with no more than a barrel, spring, and extractor adjustment. It's possible they were just lucky.

[likeitfast55]

As far as the mag well widths, that would just possibly result in a single less round for capacity, seeing as both cartridges are the same OAL. I have shot two that were converted with no more than a barrel, spring, and extractor adjustment. It's possible they were just lucky.

Agreed CJ. I just do not want to dick with this one in the unlikely event it doesn't run right.(besides I am no gunsmith, I do well just tightening screws) It feeds, fires, and ejects great right now, just the keyholing issue. I believe the barrel is worn slap out. I have several of these in .32 and while I like the .380 better, I will just buy one(.380) to add to my collection.

[likeitfast55]

Final verdict..............barrel worn out, no rifling left in the barrel. Basically worn smooth.
I assume these can be re-lined? Who around here does this? What is the average cost to do this small barrel?

[CJ]

Can only go bigger to my knowledge, that gun must have a shit load of rounds through it

[likeitfast55]

That is what the gunsmith said. I will keep my eye out for the type III 1/8" extractor .32 barrel. Numrich is sold out. Few on GB, but with a bad bore as in the description.